The Real Problem With Sanctuary Cities

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Mon, Jul 13 - 9:00 am EST | 2 years ago by
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    Lines of Departure - Sanctuary Cities

    On 1 July of this year, a young and beautiful American woman, Kathryn Steinle, was walking with her father along San Francisco’s Pier 14 – a well-known tourist spot – when an illegal immigrant1 shot and killed her, either at random or, as the killer, Juan Francisco Lopez Sanchez, claimed, because the pistol went off accidentally three times.

    Ummm…yeah…and I have this bridge for sale…

    Some, notably supporters of the idea of sanctuary cities,2 places where it is either the policy or the law not to enforce or assist in the enforcement of federal immigration law, have attempted to poo-poo and tut-tut Kate Steinle’s murder away as just being a kind of comedy of errors, with no one and no policy to blame, or to blame it on homelessness and lack of “intervention.”3 Still others urge a crackdown on sanctuary cities.4 And the less said about idiotic statements from White House press secretaries, the better.5

    *****

    A couple of observations about “sanctuaries:”

    1. Most sanctuaries will not honor Immigrations and Customs Enforcement detainers, see the map at footnote 2, but will honor warrants for arrest for criminal acts other than violation of immigration law. Some, like Orleans Parish, Louisiana, will only honor a criminal warrant for the most serious crimes.6 San Francisco County isn’t quite as uncooperative as that. At least, I think San Francisco will honor a warrant for simple rape, without requiring that it be aggravated.

    2. The first sanctuary city was Los Angeles, which used the fig leaf of protecting refugees from Central America from being deported to face death squads. Having dealt pretty closely with people claiming to be fleeing death squads and other persecutions, during the Haitian internment on Guantanamo, in 1991 and 1992, color me deeply skeptical about the percentages of refugees that are doing anything but looking for a better economic life. The interview process actually serves as a school to teach them to adjust their stories so as to appear to be in more danger than may actually be the case. Being denied refugee status once, the stories change on the second attempt, and often rather substantially.

    Note that many, but not all, come in willing to work for that life. And some – notably the core cadre which formed MS-13 – were probably criminals in the first place, who arguably needed a good dose of killing back in El Salvador.7

    3. To be fair, we cannot cheer too wildly for those local polities and law enforcement departments that refuse to cooperate with BATFE8 or the justice department, or their home state to enforce gun laws9 and condemn too roundly others that refuse to cooperate with immigration law. At one level, at least, they are very similar, because…

    4. …at one level, requiring local towns, cities, counties, and states to devote their own resources – time and money – to supporting federal law is constrained if not quite illegal under the Unfunded Mandate Reform Act of 1995. I’d also say that – despite a great deal of New Deal legislation and Civil Rights legislation that was upheld by the courts – allowing the federal government to force cities, counties, and states to spend money without recompense is just flat a violation of federalism and utterly unconstitutional.

    Note, for all you lefties who just love unfunded mandates, that the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 was one such.

    In any case, just imagine the extreme: “We’ve decided that ultra-high end vacations for the first lady and her children are much better uses of tax dollars, so we’re going to stop enforcing any degree of border control at all, spend the money on those vacations, and require the states, counties, cities, and towns of the United States to pay for all immigration enforcement.” Who wouldn’t give the uplifted finger of fellowship to the federal government over something like that? Especially since…

    5. Control of the national border is not just a job for the national government, it is JOB ONE.

    And that’s pretty much where the problem began, with massive numbers of folks who made it across an essentially unguarded border, and became Juan, the gardener (on whom no social security taxes were paid), Rosalita, the maid (on whom no social security taxes were paid), Jesús, the fruitpicker (on whom no social security taxes were paid), and Maria, the migrant Democratic voter registration specialist, who operates in season in Californian and Illinois graveyards (and on whom no social security taxes were paid).

    These folks stopped being foreigners, unknown and unknowable, and became people we knew, friends and even family, or just like people we knew as friends and family.10 Add in that our friends, “Rosalita, Jesús, y Maria,”11 were brown, hence inherently virtuous and worthy of protection for the ever so evil, wicked, bad, naughty, and badbadbad white racist America (RRAAYYYYCCCIIISSSSTTTT!!!!) and you arrive at, “Well, we’re just not going to let them be deported.”

    *****

    So what’s the problem? It’s not just Kathryn Steinle, shot at random, nor even the occasional duo of American teenaged girls gang raped and viciously murdered.12 Those are bad but not existential. No, the problem is that that we’re effectively ceding sovereignty of a part of our country to people (to include a large number of highly caring and sensitive white people, of course) who a) hate our guts for stealing that part in the first place, or just for what we are,13 b) are not necessarily the pillars of the Mexican or other society they’re running from, therefore, c) are unlikely to be able to keep a modern state going any better than Mexico is, so d) are likely to continue to run from what they’ve been fleeing all along, Mexico and Central America, while e) if we couldn’t secure the current border, with both a broad if shallow river and a lot of inhospitable to the point of deadly desert to help, we’re not likely to be able to secure the Rio Grande plus another nine hundred or so miles, bordering on or closer to more hospitable terrain, that is also more rugged, hence tougher to patrol and control.

    Related to that is the Volkswanderung problem, which destroyed the Western Roman Empire and which began when Rome was unable to prevent a contiguous, socially cohesive, and culturally unassimilable tribe from settling inside its borders. True, Latins are not coming in as entire socially cohesive tribes; oh, no, they come in as individuals or in small groups but become socially cohesive tribes, like, say, MS-13, once they arrive and settle in. Big difference…not. Frankly, we’re heading for – along with every other kind of fracture imaginable – a race war over possession of our southwest and west coast. Think here: Yugoslavia but nastier.

    And the solution?

    Number one is seal the border. In the process, ignore childish protests like, “For every 50-foot fence there’s a 51-foot ladder.” Yeah? For every 51-foot ladder there’s a 50-caliber machine gun. You wouldn’t have to use them more than once or twice, either. Moreover, you will kill a lot fewer than are going to die in that race war cum Volkswanderung that’s coming.

    Number two: Cut off all aid, indeed, all federal spending, in any city, state, or county that refuses to cooperate with immigration enforcement. At the same time, pay a per head price, based – generously – on the cost of enforcement, to the jurisdiction for everyone turned over for deportation. It won’t work, though, until the border is secure.

    Number three is the Blazing Saddles-Rock Ridge approach, which is to say the first minute or so of this. No, we needn’t deputize them. All we need do is comb the prisons for the worst violent offenders who were also illegal immigrants, give them a conditional pardon – pardoned on condition of staying where we send them, sort them, bus them to San Francisco County and Orleans Parish, perhaps a few other places, and then release them into those sanctuaries.14

    Doesn’t it just tug at the heartstrings, though, all that caring and sensitivity and anti-racism and sanctuary granting? It sure moves me.

    __________

    1 No, goddammit, I don’t mean any politically correct, euphemistic bullshit like “undocumented worker,” I mean illegal immigrant; indeed, having been caught and deported some five times, Lopez was about as illegal as you can get.

    2 There are also sanctuary counties and at least two sanctuary states, by the way, the latter being North Dakota and Rhode Island http://cis.org/Sanctuary-Cities-Map

    3 http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/dan-morain/article27008524.html

    4 http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420933/sanctuary-cities-san-francisco-steinle

    5 http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/6/white-house-blames-gop-kathryn-steinles-slaying-ri/

    6 From the map in fn 2: Policy: Case 2:11-cv-00225- SS
    Criteria for Honoring Detainer: Charged with first or second degree murder, aggravated rape, aggravated kidnapping, treason, or armed robbery with the use of a firearm

    7 Look up Sombra Negra, which is a pretty good illustration of what you get when the law no longer works, and especially when a large and prosperous country – us – deports hardened criminals – MS-13 – who have effectively been given sanctuary for their criminal operations by one of our cities – Los Angeles – back to their own country – El Salvador – where they can expand their operations. Yes, I’m pretty sure that MS-13 is in good part a creature of that first sanctuary city policy, in Los Angeles. So maybe they saved some people, genuine refugees, but also maybe they created the environment to get quite a few more people killed. Ah, but, no matter, so long as the very sensitive and caring, to say nothing of prosperous, whites of LA get to feel good about themselves, just so caring and sensitive and wonderful and superior, and only poor brown and black folks get killed.

    8 I would expect everyone to know what that is, but just in case, the Bureau Of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

    9 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/us/sheriffs-refuse-to-enforce-laws-on-gun-control.html?_r=0 and http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/16/us/oregon-sheriff-gun-laws/, for example

    10 Why yes, as a matter of fact, service in the Army, to include four and a half years with what amounted to America’s Latin Foreign Legion, in Panama, plus marriage to her – http://www.tomkratman.com/yoli.html – for 36 years has made me sympathetic to Latins, in general. Those folks who wanted to keep Rosalita here and safe were not necessarily motivated solely by not having to pay Social Security tax on her earnings. Oh, and my first lefty reader who wants to call “racist” over this column? Yeah, go fuck yourself.

    11 Woody Guthrie’s “Deportees (Plane Wreck At Los Gatos)”, surely one of the least factual protest songs ever to arise from the diseased soul of leftism. I like the Danny Doyle version, myself.

    12 http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Houston-girls-killer-set-to-die-Tuesday-despite-1618831.php. My only problem with the execution was the sad and unfortunate dearth of nails used in the process.

    13 Partly true, partly bullshit. Over most of the liberated area of Texas and the conquests of the Mexican War, Americans, not Mexicans, were either an absolute majority or, at least, a majority of the non-Indian population.

    14 By the way, the above is my kinder and gentler version. If you think that’s harsh, you’re just not ready for the tough version.

    Tom Kratman is a retired infantry lieutenant colonel, recovering attorney, and science fiction and military fiction writer. His latest novel, The Rods and the Axe, is available from Amazon.com for $9.99 for the Kindle version, or $25 for the hardback. A political refugee and defector from the People’s Republic of Massachusetts, he makes his home in Blacksburg, Virginia. He holds the non-exclusive military and foreign affairs portfolio for EveryJoe. Tom’s books can be ordered through baen.com.

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      • Kevin Crowley

        Bang on sir.

      • James

        The problem is how we are taught. Regardless of what people think Americans are just nice people culturally. See a illegal kid or women. Your more than likely to try and help them after all those are women and children right? Right?

        This ignores reality especially the reality of what the environment is like farther south. Entire gangs of little kids. One or two come out of a building or bushes ask for food or something everyone says awe poor things….then the rest come out and slit your throats to take your shit.

        I think the problem Kratman is it will be to late. We in the US are just to shielded from the rest of the world and the reality of it. Entire regions of those countries are controlled by the gangs and drug lords and the governments aren’t much better.

        I agree with your reasoning…unfortunately I know we won’t do it till its to late. And in the end we have maybe even a worse habit of absolute brutality when threatened than even the Europeans can manage.

        BTW this is coming from a person who likes most illegals he has met. The problem is we seem to treat all of them like they are just Juan the gardener who just wants a better life. Far to many are here to kill, steal, rape, and do whatever they want. Hell and who do they prey upon first.

        We need to get a handle on this for everyones sake.

        • Jono

          There are a bunch of us that could man those 50 calibers.

      • James

        Maybe we should take a page from the book from England.

        Take all the land with in 10 miles or so from the mexican border. Give it to people and say this is yours free forever just make sure nothing gets across and act like a fucking reasonable human being we leave you alone.

      • Ming the Merciless

        are not necessarily the pillars of the Mexican or other society they’re running from

        It wouldn’t matter if only the “pillars” came here. If they did, they’d make us just as well functioning as Mexico. Which is fine, for Mexicans, but for gringos, not so much.

      • Duffy

        Couple of
        points.

        Donald Trump
        says a lot about himself when he says that Mexico and Central American
        Countries send their ‘undesirables” to the United States. That is exactly
        what they do. But exactly what is the definition of undesirable? I think Trump
        has the same opinion of what is undesirable that the Blue Bloods who own most
        of the wealth, government and “Justice” in Latin America. Of course it includes
        some criminals, which is what everyone infers that Donald Trump is talking
        about. But the majority of them, the kind of people that will risk death
        traveling a thousand miles to an alien place where the welcome might be hostile
        in order to make a new life. Those are also undesirable to the powers that be
        in Latin America, and Donald Trump. Because the ability to flee that kind of
        society serves as a pressure relief valve, if it did not exist, well those
        people might well decide to try and change the status quo. Which also gives us
        a stick to use about our problem with them. Send them back, any crap from the
        governments of the nations of origin, send them back armed and with some
        training in unconventional warfare. And until such time is we get a handle on
        the problem, deduct the cost of maintaining their citizens here from their
        foreign aid packages.

        As far as
        the concept of the United States stealing their land. Utter horsecrap, as Tom
        Kratman pointed out, Anglos from the US were the majority population in those
        parts of former Mexico that were taken in the Mexican American War were already
        a larger share of the population than the Latin. And they were generally
        invited in by the Government of Mexico who was having trouble maintaining a
        presence in the face of resistance from the only groups of people who had a
        legitimate prior claim to the area than either Mexico or the US, the Indians,
        especially the Comanche and the Apache, who had no great love Mexico or
        Mexicans. Face it, they whole “foreign invader” thing does not work for Latin
        American against the US because, bluntly, the Latins were an Italian Tribe, not
        a Native American one.

        • Tom Kratman

          Among the problems is that they’re coming from a place where larger society doesn’t work very well, but families are rather strong and, indeed, the only refuge. They don’t usually change much, either. My wife, for example, is among the most Americanized Latins you’re likely to meet, and she simply doesn’t understand not putting blood first and foremost.

          Another problem – and this has been true with nearly every group of immigrants that’s come here, to include my own crowd, the Irish – is that the immigrant quite naturally lacks an emotional bond to the people among whom he has moved, and vice versa, of course. In most cases that doesn’t make a huge difference; if he won’t acquire that bond his kids will, given the chance. However, if you have some people – and they exist in all populations – who not only have no emotional bond but are given to crime already, you end up with Elizabeth Pena, 16, and Jennifer Ertman, 14, gang raped, tortured, strangled, and then throat stomped to ensure they were dead.

        • Duffy

          Yes, Trump does seem to lack any of the redeeming qualities one would associate with Good Breeding, but try and see it from his point of view. Once you do that and the nausea passes, I think he sees many of the people who come here as undesirable, much the way the Familias running things down south do, in that they are potential trouble. And I think that there is a point to that, after all, who was it fleeing Europe for North America? The trouble makers, the losers from various revolutionary movements, the Irish rotherhood and Fenians and the German Democrat movements. Not all of them bad, not all of them good. The ones who, if they could not flee Europe, that might have changed the character of the 20th Century in Europe itself.

          There is another not often discussed aspect about this. The culture in Latin America is, as you say, based more in the Family and less in Society, but buttressed by the fact that well, the organs of Governance are corrupt. They expect the same kind of Government here in the US. Justice is not equal, it is bought and paid for. And the Families with the power rely on that. They own the power because they have the wealth. And I suspect that would suit Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, and probably not a few other elected officials from both sides of the political spectrum.

        • http://batman-news.com Rick Randall

          Huge point there about the demographics of the pre-Texas Revolution Southwest.

          Anglos were recruited and invited (with hug land grants) because the Spanish (and later, Mexican) governments couldn’t settle the areas with Mexicans, due to hostile Indians.

          Also, when someone says, “I didn’t cross the border, the border crossed me,” I call BULLSHIT! By and large, the Hispanics who were already there *stayed* there. When you meet some short, swarthy redneck named “Bubba” Gonzales whose Spanish pretty much maxes out at, “Dos cervesas, por favor,” chances are you’ve met someone whose family *actually* had the border cross them.

        • Tom Kratman

          You can find some towns along I-10, for certain expansive values of “along,” that are old and Spanish and always were, but, yeah, the bulk of the one’s the border crossed are as you describe, and fair chance their ancestors marched with Sam Houston.

          Note, there is a little area of “Mexico” that was part of Texas, but the Rio Grande shifted. I believe that the town’s population had to go to court to prove they were American citizens, and did.

      • Ray

        I really think that democrats are out to destroy America by reducing our military to a token force and creating more enemies than we can possibly hope to fight. The southern border crisis is just another place we could try and stretch a thin line.

        Of course moving 3/4 of ATF and IRS over to IBC, ICE or whatever they’re calling themselves today would help bolster that effort.

        • Tom Kratman

          Well…many, perhaps most, of them are reds. The United States stood against communism, barely aided by the rest of the industrialized world, which was also soft, squishy, and decidedly pink, until the Soviet Union collapsed and the rest of the communist world decided to just leave it as words and symbols and let that whole Marxism thing go the way of the Passenger pigeon, while setting things up rather nicely for their highly capitalist children. So, yeah, a lot of them – not all, see for example, Eric Flint – hate America’s guts.

      • Darius Garsys

        Ya know. While I get riled at the “we can’t deport them all” crowd (for a value of “all” north of 90% – yes we can, we just don’t have the WILL, and bluntly, that’s not the solution I want either, but we CAN), we need a solution that works.

        As you said, if we can’t keep AND kick the bad ones out, nothing else we do matters. That and the f*cking red tape nightmare to legally get in that should be easier – or at least more straightforward – than it is. Some of the people I know with the biggest hard-on for illegal immigrants are the LEGAL ones who resent the shortcuts.

        Me – I’d be amenable (assuming a patrolled border) to an “amnesty” along the lines of “get in line behind the legal immigrants and jump through the same hoops – or else” and ” I don’t care if it’s not fair, but you already broke the law once, so you get sent back if you break the law to any degree greater than ‘x’ even if it wouldn’t get you jail time” (with “x” being above the level of a speeding ticket but including thefts/assault, etc…)

        Let the people who want to stay PROVE it by doing it the right way, and waiting behind the people who tried to do it the right way from the get go, AND that they’re willing to follow the laws.

        • Tom Kratman

          Every amnesty just means another amnesty, a few years down the road. Each additional amnesty just means a larger unassimilated and increasingly unassimilable tribe within the borders, voting and lobbying for just one more amnesty.

          By the way, the 13th Amendment tells us how to make illegal immigration so unpleasant that few or none would try it.

        • Darius Garsys

          Which is probably why something harsher will be needed.

          Point being – with a solidly patrolled border, and kicking out those who are caught (especially caught breaking another law on top of being here illegally), a lot of other crap can be made to work.

          And without that? Well, whether or not we “enforce” the laws or ship everyone out, it doesn’t matter.

        • Mark Andrew Edwards

          Bang on, sir. I remember the Regan amnesty and making this exact argument with my (Missionary to Columbia and Los Angeles) Aunt and Uncle about why it was a bad idea. And why multi-multilingualism was a bad idea as well.

          At this point, I’d be happy with just the fence. It would be a start.

          Also discovered from all this that I live in a Sanctuary County. Gotta see if I can help undo that next election.

        • http://themcchuck.blogspot.com McChuck

          Berlin showed us that a wall can, in deed, be effective at curtailing emigration. And like all obstacles, it is only of value if covered by fire. After that is set up and manned, then we can work on getting rid of the millions who are here already.

          Operation Wetback deported just over a million Mexicans in 1954 alone, using fewer than 1000 federal agents. It can be done. It just requires willpower.

          And why do we keep hearing about ’11 million’ illegals? They’ve used that same number for the last twenty years, when at least a half million more show up every year. I know a few go back, but not that many. Just look around – are there more or fewer of them around now? And we’re not just talking about California and the border states – they’re everywhere now.

          A country is more than a piece of land with interchangeable human widgets living on it. It is a people with their own history, language, and culture. An attack upon my culture is an attack upon my people. And an unwanted influx of millions of foreigners is most definitely an invasion.

      • Jack Withrow

        Col, This has been bothering me since the SSM decision by the Soviet Supreme Court (SSC). Under the 14th Amendment, with its equal protection clause, could not the argument be made that cities that are not sanctuary cities are discriminating against illegals by turning them over to ICE? I would hope the answer is no. But since the Soviet Supreme Court has opened up that can of worms, what is to stop the Left from using that bludgeon against any state or city that complies with Federal Law when other jurisdictions do not? That SSM case I believe will have ramifications far beyond just SSM. And if one jurisdiction legalizes something, that is not illegal under Federal Law, what is to stop the SSC from forcing other jurisdictions to comply with that one jurisdiction? I just don’t see where the Law means anything anymore.

        • Tom Kratman

          If you’re talking about a Tranzis court, any decision that operates against the nation state and national sovereignty is conceivable. We tend to ignore them. If, as I think, you mean the Supreme Court, it would be a stretch, a BIG stretch.

        • Jack Withrow

          I no longer have any confidence that the Soviet Supreme Court (SCOTUS) will rule in any way judicial. Every recent ruling by them has been motivated by politics IMO to the detriment of the Rule of Law.
          And if as you say cities are not required by Law to cooperate with ICE and turn over illegals due to the question of unfunded mandates while others cooperate freely with ICE, I have no confidence SCOTUS will rule in favor of those cities cooperating with ICE. All it will take is the MSM beating the drum of equal protection under the law to get some momentary favorability rise in public opinion polls and SCOTUS will cave. I sincerely hope I am wrong, but I don’t see much chance of that happening if it comes to what I think will happen.

      • Bordeaux Vixen

        what a load a giz

        • James

          Oh what are you suggesting is wrong with his assessment. Also keep in mind his wife is a latin American immigrant and he worked and lived down there for a long time. It also links up with pretty much anything I have heard from those who live or have in latin America.

        • Tom Kratman

          Don’t mind her, she’s evidence that the really big mistake was shoes.

        • http://batman-news.com Rick Randall
        • Tom Kratman

          Truth to tell, I am not certain BV isn’t paid by everyjoe to come in and give feminazism and leftism bad names.

        • Ciarog

          Speaking as a professional troll myself (yup, business cards and everything) that does not seem unlikely.

        • James

          I want a troll business card. I can be the old troll. The happy jolly troll. I miss those days.

        • Bordeaux Vixen

          oh i’m so glad he has minority friends

        • Tom Kratman

          My, you really _are_ an illiterate bint, aren’t you? Well, no matter; you have my blessings and best wishes in continuing your good work of giving leftism and feminism a bad name.

      • James

        A question. Does this make a good case for immigration restrictions between states? Seems to me this will all simply continue. Those who made the sanctuary cities like that will always simply move when they make it shitty enough to live there. Or their kids or the kids of the immigrants after being indoctrinated will move to a new city, state, town, etc and start it all over.

        Look at the small towns in the US. Especially the small towns of the South. The people up north made the cities to expensive and generally a special pile of crap. Now they want a place where they can relax and pay less. So they move south. Move to a small town.

        The problem is that they aren’t coming alone. They begin to move in more and more and soon the whole town is changed. They complain that the place has changed is to expensive and not as nice. The locals meanwhile are not hired for the jobs. They don’t get extra money as the people who move in take the jobs the others offer. Their way of life is destroyed and the cost of living increases to where all they have is nothing.

        This whole country is going to hell in a handbasket. And the MF sending us there are idiots to blind to see what they are doing. If we say anything we are bigoted fools and cowards. Do nothing and lose everything….

        • http://batman-news.com Rick Randall

          Huge difference between interstate free movement by legal US residents and citizens, and controlling illegal immigration.

          Instituting “internal passports” like the Soviet Union makes me get all twitchy and “I gotta go clean my guns”, even if you could guarantee (somehow, magically) it would instantly and perfectly solve the illegal immigration problem.

        • Tom Kratman

          Yeah, but he’s right about the problem of internal migration, too. One of these months, I may need to do a series of columns on the bedouization of the western world (which doesn’t have much to do, really, with bedu).

        • http://batman-news.com Rick Randall

          Oh, true. I am well aware of the problem when people from the Northeastern cites move down to Southern states (since I’m on the East Coast) because of a lower cost of living and pleasant environment, and then try to institute the same policies tat turned their home states into the kind of like lace they fled.

          I’d rather deal with that than restrict free movement of people who are legally here. Sure, they destroyed California with internal migration, and are a fair way into turning NoVA into Baltimore and Philadelphia, but the proposed “cure” (even if it would work) is worse than the disease.

        • Tom Kratman

          It’s not 100% clear that it is worse, or that there isn’t some other cure, maybe almost as bad, that wouldn’t be worse.

          Timocracy now; timocracy tomorrow, timocracy forever.

        • James

          Y ea never said it was perfect but something has to be done. Don’t want my state to end up like Kratmans.

      • http://batman-news.com Rick Randall

        One question: OK the detainers are one thing (I believe the states and cities should honor the detainers – after all, it doesn’t amount to a significant unfunded mandate to call the local ICE office and say, “That guy who you *let* us take custody of for a local crime? Yeah, we’re releasing him tomorrow, wanna come collect him?”), but to not even honor a federal arrest warrant for suspects *already in custody”?

        Cut al federal law enforcement subsidies to those sanctuary localities, and don’t bother cooperation *at all* with law enforcement assistance with them, unless it is deemed to be directly in aid of *federal* LE priorities.

      • Andrew Foss

        RE, observation 3: We sure can. Territorial Sovereignty allows those very idiots the opportunity to make their …subjects… victims. It, however, does *not* give them the right to make the country as a whole a group of victims. The deal (take it or leave the union) should be as follows:

        Posse comitatus could, and should, be amended to allow and require a 1 mile border buffer to be inapplicable and used as a military/civilian joint artillery and mortar impact area, rifle and crew served weapon range, aircraft gunnery area and dismounted patrol training area.

        If you don’t like it, the rest of us put up a fence and establish the same, hold all further funding and you can be your own country. People who wish to remain an American may move back to the US, though they must be searched and have identification and proof of citizenship dated before the fence went up.

      • Ciarog

        “By the way, the above is my kinder and gentler version. If you think that’s harsh, you’re just not ready for the tough version.”

        That’s a lot gentler than what I had recently suggested: empty the worst offenders out of our prisons, take them to the border, send (parts of) them the rest of the way to Mexico via cannon.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowing_from_a_gun

        Just to show that we ain’t prejudiced, take Keith Hunter Jesperson to the 49th parallel and put his head in front of a north-pointing cannon.

        (Yes I know this was historically done to mutineers and other military criminals, but I think it was Russia that actually did fire a few criminals back at their country of origin. Failing even this, we could always Christianize them.)

        “Criteria for Honoring Detainer: Charged with first or second degree murder, aggravated rape, aggravated kidnapping, treason, or armed robbery with the use of a firearm.”

        Piracy, sabotage or espionage I would understand, but how does a foreigner commit treason?

        • Ciarog

          *headslap*

          Against his native country from which he has fled, when said country is an ally of ours. Of course.

        • Tom Kratman

          It’s arguable whether we can actually charge someone with treason to a foreign country, however.

        • guest

          I can’t claim credit for this idea, but it might be more to the point.

          Of the currently detained illegals, select one hundred thousand young males in good physical condition. Select also for intelligence, determination, and mental toughness, so far as is possible.

          Break up this group of one hundred thousand into groups small enough to be digestible, so to speak, by all the US Army and Marine training bases in North America. Cycle all of them, every swinging dick, through an accelerated Basic/Boot and quick-and-dirty AIT. Teach them to shoot. Teach them small unit tactics. Teach them to operate an assortment of common small arms and heavy weapons. Teach specialists among them to operate radios and give them the skills of a good forward observer. And give every man a copy of Chairman Mao’s Little Red Book on guerilla warfare, translated into Spanish, and encourage them to read the books on their free time. Also have “community organization” sessions in which Spanish-speaking motivational speakers come in every fourth Sunday after mass and explain to the men that Mexican society has screwed them over and thrown them out of their homeland. That Mexican politics are corrupt from top to bottom and end to end. That Mexico has the natural resources to be an economic superpower–everything from petroleum to gold to fantastically fertile farmland–but generations of corrupt dictatorial regimes have stolen all the wealth for themselves and left ordinary people like them to starve. And tell them over and over–a true patriot fights for his country, he doesn’t flee it.

          And when these hundred thousand have finished training, buy a hundred thousand SKS rifles from the Chinese and basic combat loads of 7.62x39mm ammo. Give every ninth and tenth men an RPG and six rockets for it. Organize them into company and battalion-sized elements, and give them some 60mm mortars and old Stinger or Redeye MANPADS as battalion assets.

          Now they’re ready. Send them all back to Mexico–armed–with the strongly worded suggestion that Mexico needs a revolution in order to take its rightful place among the advanced democratic nations of the 21st Century.

          I suspect that after the first group of a hundred thousand, we wouldn’t have to do it twice. The Mexican government would patrol the border from their side.

          This is just a flight of fancy on my part of course. It’ll never happen. It’d require politicians in Washington with the will to say “no” to the leftist ideologues who want all those wetbacks to come here and sign up for “El Guëlfare” and vote the straight Democrat ticket forevermore. They’d also have to have the will to say “no” to the slimy Chamber of Commerce types who want all the cheap labor in the world to flood into this country, what happens to society be damned so long as they can get their pile.

          That having been said, it would not be worse than where we’re headed, on the path we’re on right now.

        • Tom Kratman

          Suspect you’re overstating the degree to which we can select (since people lie) and the degree to which we can train in values, outlooks, and attitudes that people didn’t get as children (about which the armed forces lie to themselves). Frankly, I suspect we’d just be saving trouble for the Zetas and eventually adding trouble for ourselves.

        • KenWats

          Even if we could select for the aforementioned, our government would lose it’s nerve. If you thought the Bay of Pigs was ugly…

        • http://batman-news.com Rick Randall

          Anyone who “owes allegiance” to the United States, whether a citizen or not, can be charged with treason, if tht conduct would be treasonous if committed by a US citizen.

          I don’t see how the *US* could charge someone with treason against another nation – we could extradite them, of course, and that would be handled through the State Department and immigration.

        • Michele8965
      • El Paso Mark

        The latest immigration scam here along the border is the “Credible Fear” claim. As in
        “I’m afraid I’m going to be killed by the drug gangs/drug lords/drug violence (Of which I am a part of) so I am in fear for my life and am fleeing to your country for
        sanctuary and safety. Take me in. Bullshit.

        • Tom Kratman

          Can’t blame them for trying; it’s _our_ law that’s idiotic.

      • PeaceMaker

        I have looked but have been unable to determine if Sanctuary cities have a higher percentage of “Human Trafficking” AKA Slavery for the not so Politically Correct. Then look at numbers of missing persons in the same cities. I know girls from Central and South America get snatched and brought up here and sold into prostitution. I just have not been able to find proof that girls are snatched here and sent south. Hell it is hard to find data on missing persons and trends in missing persons. You would think both topics would be something the OH SO CARING Justice department or FBI would be tracking. Makes me wonder why?

        • Tom Kratman

          Gut feeling is that few or none are being sold south, what with the market being pretty much saturated and all. But sold to Europe? To Asia? To the Middle East? Wouldn’t doubt it a bit.

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