El Imperio Contraataque, Part 2: Soldier’s Job, Cop’s Job

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    Lines of Departure - Soldier’s Job, Cop’s Job

    El Imperio Contraataque (The Empire Strikes Back): Fighting the War to Retain the American Southwest

    Part 2, Soldier’s Job, Cop’s Job

    When I was a young private, circa 1975, in Company D-Second Battalion, 502nd Infantry of the One-O-One, there came a day when the Operations Shop (S-3) had taken some hundreds of old, worn out, or redundant – non-classified, be it noted – field manuals and dumped them in a pile outside battalion headquarters for anyone to take that wanted to. I browsed through the pile and selected maybe half a dozen or so to keep. Among these was the then counterinsurgency manual, which was rather a thin tome. I think I still have it around here, somewhere.

    At the time, having turned eighteen not so long before and with rather less than a year in the Army, most of that in the training establishment, I didn’t understand all that much about counterinsurgency. I’d read Sir Robert Thompson’s No Exit From Vietnam, and his Defeating Communist Insurgency, along with a few personal accounts of counterinsurgency war. And, of course, I knew a fair number of veterans from the Vietnam War, which included, I think, every senior officer and sergeant I’d run into by then and no small number of junior enlisted. Even so, one paragraph – and that was all it was, a single miserable paragraph – of the manual just jumped out at me. It had to do with the role of police in a counterinsurgency. Basically, that one – miserable in both senses – paragraph said that the police were useful to help control a civilian population during combat operations and cordon and search operations.

    I can think of no better illustration of why we lost in Vietnam than that; we never really understood the full nature of the war in which we were engaged.

    For a check of proof, fast forward about seven years to Harry Summers’ On Strategy: A Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War. Harry got many things right, I think, but also missed a couple of rather important things. One of these, incomprehensible in a senior professional soldier, was to completely miss – or perhaps ignore – the question, “Where was the rice coming from?” It wasn’t coming from the north; while the Peoples Army of Vietnam was perfectly capable of feeding a decent-sized corps or so or, at least, arranging for its supply, within a radius of maybe one hundred miles from a place like Dien Bien Phu, the distances involved in South Vietnam were up to an order of magnitude greater, for forces that may well have been at times half or more of an order of magnitude greater than those at Dien Bien Phu, as well, and with probably much more than an order of magnitude’s greater aerial interdiction than the French ever had a hope of mustering. One might adjudge the PAVN’s logistic problem, therefore, as possibly more than five hundred times greater, or even one thousand times more difficult, just for subsistence. Indeed, it was probably an insurmountable problem, or would have been, had they been feeding from the north.

    They weren’t. The rice to keep the insurgency going was coming – had to have come – almost entirely from South Vietnam, either taxed from the local villages and farmers or bought from imports into the country and smuggled out to the waiting, ever-hungry, Vietcong and North Vietnamese Army, or bought on the open market in Cambodia and shipped very safely1 across that country to near the border.

    Our soldiers and South Vietnam’s couldn’t stop it, we tried. The Navy and Air Force tried, too, and, obviously enough, failed overall as well. Only police could have stopped the flow of rice to the enemy. But they, of course, were only useful for controlling civilians during combat operations and the conduct of cordon and search operations, just as the manual said.

    Ahem.

    Conversely, imagine a circumstance where the police had been able to control the flow of rice. Could the regular North Vietnamese and Vietcong units operating around the periphery have maintained their threatening positions? Not a chance, they’d have either starved or had to fall back to where they could be fed, deeper into Cambodia, say, or Laos, or central North Vietnam where they could be fed. Their forays into what we might call the base areas of South Vietnam would have been less frequent and on a much reduced scale. If we’d been able to cause that to happen then the regular armed forces, ours and South Vietnam’s, both, would have been able to protect the police (and, critically, their families) so that they could have been relied on to have done a better job of identifying and rooting out what we called the “Viet Cong infrastructure,” such that collection of rice and other taxes, terrorism, and sabotage of South Vietnam would have been reduced. Short version: If we’d been willing and able to see that the police mattered as much as or, really, more than the armed forces – at least as far as the war for resource and population control went – we just might have won what was already a close run thing anyway.

    In fact, it is the police, not the Army or Marines, who are most important in counterinsurgency. Why is this so? It’s for a couple of reasons. One is that the police are simply cheaper to field than soldiers are. Yes, they draw greater paychecks, but they are still cheaper to field, partly because of the kinds of arms they use, partly because things that must be provided to soldiers to keep them going have to be provided by other soldiers or, for some things, not especially cheap contract civilians, partly because of the more expensive initial training regimen for soldiers, and partly for post-service benefits. (That isn’t an exhaustive list, by the way.)

    Cost is only one factor, though, and not the most important for a rich country. Much more important are the facts that proper police know their communities, know the people of their communities, know what looks, feels, and “smells” normal in their communities, can identify the stranger who ought not be there, and will usually have an instinctive feel for when things are not normal. Proper police are restrained in the use of force and especially deadly force. (Yes, this is, indeed, a suggestion that recent, fairly frequent, incidents of unwise, unnecessary, and inappropriate police use of deadly force means there is something wrong with our police, or something beginning to go wrong with our police, on the grand scale. Yes, this should scare you.)

    Military intelligence is good for some things. If the opponent, MALA, as we’ve called it here, the Mexican-American Liberation Army, intends to do an attack on a Border Patrol fort, once we find we have to entrench the Border Patrol and their families2, the Army’s or Marine Corps’ military intelligence apparatus may be able to identify the whos, whens, wheres, and hows of this not so small thing in time to save the BP and their families. The police intelligence apparatus, on the other hand, is more likely to be able to do things like:

    1. Tally the theft of a van, reportedly by Pablo “Hot Fingers” Saldañas, with,
    2. A few purchases of individually near industrial quantities of acetone and hydrogen peroxide, and,
    3. A recording of a wiretapped conversation between “Juan the Fence,” for whom “Hot Fingers” is known to frequently work and, Enrique “Matagringo” Hernandez, mentioning “la Galleria…Houston…this Saturday,” and come up, “Fuck, bomb, there,”3 in time to evacuate people or even keep the damned thing from going off at all.

    So where do regular forces come in? As mentioned, they defend the Border Patrol which defends the border. They also defend the police. Infantry are good for those kinds of thing. Just as we’re going to have to harden the Border Patrol, we’re going to have to harden and defend the police and their families, at least in the more dangerous and contested areas. Combat engineers are useful for that, just as they’ll prove useful to replace downed bridges and repair cratered roads and railroads. The cell and landline telephone systems are vulnerable. Civilian band radio and unencrypted police radio are vulnerable to both interception and interference. Hardened military wireless communication is rather less so, and probably not at all vulnerable to a fairly unsophisticated enemy. Moreover, as with humanitarian operations (see this: http://www.everyjoe.com/2014/11/10/politics/why-military-used-disaster-relief-humanitarian-aid/), the military just has a lot of redundant capability built in, since it’s made to go toe to toe with the 4th Mongolian Armored Shock Horde (marca registrada), but rarely has to.

    Then, too, the military, rather than the police, should be used for high value, but potentially high casualty, operations. This isn’t just because the armed forces have things like helicopter gunships, F15s, artillery, and armor. And it isn’t just because, the time cops spend learning to direct traffic we spend learning to clear buildings and fortifications. No, it’s that there are only so many people – and they’re almost entirely men – who are really suitable to being cops. I speak here of men who can use violence, and look like they can, but prefer not to, men who would rather keep the peace than make a desert and call that “peace.”4

    What that means, friends and comrades, is that simple soldiers like myself (formerly, when fit) can be easily replaced. Cops…not so much.

    Don’t miss Part 1 in this series.

    __________
    1 At least until the coup of 1970.

    2 As we will.

    3 You know it’s harder than this, right?

    4 Indeed, my personal suspicions concerning why we’ve been seeing so many unjustifiable police shootings, of late, is that we’ve let into law enforcement too many people who have no business being cops, in good part because we allow to retire far too early those few men who are suitable to be cops.

    Photo by tommaso79 / Getty Images

    Tom Kratman is a retired infantry lieutenant colonel, recovering attorney, and science fiction and military fiction writer. His latest novel, The Rods and the Axe, is available from Amazon.com for $9.99 for the Kindle version, or $25 for the hardback. A political refugee and defector from the People’s Republic of Massachusetts, he makes his home in Blacksburg, Virginia. He holds the non-exclusive military and foreign affairs portfolio for EveryJoe. Tom’s books can be ordered through baen.com.

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      • Albert

        Given that there’s a somewhat limited supply of men who can be intimidating-yet-self-restrained, training a lot of military police to try to supplement the local police wouldn’t be all that effective, then?

        • Tom Kratman

          Nope. MPs you could use directing traffic at dangerous crossroads to keep commerce going, but they’re not like civil police.

        • Brigadon

          Not to mention a military police force is by far the most likely to attempt, or succeed at, gaining temporary or permanent government control.

        • Tom Kratman

          Unity of Command, the necessity and the pitfalls, is something I’ll talk about a bit further on.

        • Brigadon

          ahh, including the various roles each type of military has, policing/suppression, conquest, and garrison?

        • Tom Kratman

          More that, in order to win, we’re going to have to do some things of highly questionable constitutionality, openly, or some group is going to have to do them from behind the scenes. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.

        • Brigadon

          Yeah, I was actually looking at the constitution the other day, and you know, there’s a lot of stuff about how you can treat American citizens, but nothing about foreign nationals, Agents, enemy combatants and illegal combatants. Technically we could turn them into shoes and not even be remotely unamerican for doing so.

          But as for highly questionable constitutionality… I think many of The things Trump has planned to get us out of our international hole are a lot MORE constitutional in that they rid us of ‘entangling foreign alliances’ and do not actually violate the constitution (unlike things like NATO and NAFTA)

          For example, it’s obvious that he plans to dramatically increase inflation to ‘inflate our way’ out of debt and possibly, recapitalize with a new currency.
          Basically the international version of bankruptcy (with US labor shortages keeping the average person well ahead of inflation and reduced foreign competition keeping US companies strong despite the inflation) Of course… without the threat of an unassailable military (Something he clearly intends) as well, it WILL cause foreign cash holders to declare war.
          It’s a risky play, but the trumpster is well known for risky plays, and it beats the US quietly expiring and balkanizing, as you have so clearly pointed out as a possibility.

          But while the constitution mentions liquidation of public lands for paying debts (With the clear intention that that liquidation be at the hands of American debtors, NOT selling America to foreigners as Obama clearly intends) It does not actually say anything about giving foreign debtors the finger…. The Irony of the situation being that it will all of a sudden make Russia our closest ally, as we have almost no debt ties with them.

          I think there is still a little room before we ‘cross the line’ into unconstitutionality, and if, in so doing, we pull back a bunch of feet that have already crossed over that line, so much the better.

        • Tom Kratman

          People tend to read into the Constitution a lot of things that aren’t actually there, and to ignore things that are, while often forgetting that it wasn’t written entirely de novo, that there were things understood. Why, for example, is “the executive power” not defined? Because it was simply understood at the time what it meant and what it was; it wasn’t necessary to repeat every word (or end up arguing over every word).

          By questionable constitutionality, I mean things like suppression of free speech – which isn’t necessarily unconstitutional in every case, but is likely to go past reasonable prudence into unconstitutionality. If we can lock up the nationals of foreign nations with which we are openly and declaredly at war, and we can, it doesn’t necessarily follow that we can lock up foreign nationals who are legally here but with the home states of which we are not at war. We can suppress an open and declared rebellion, surely; but does it follow that we can declare a state or area or territory to be in rebellion which has never admitted to it?

          In this scenario, we are going to end up right on that line very quickly. We’re also probably going to cross it about 5 minutes after we reach it.

        • BigGaySteve

          The founders obviously wanted us to give handouts to the Barbary pirates descendants.

        • Brigadon

          I am looking forward to it.

        • WinterBorn58

          I would put it more like “the skill sets of a good civil policeman, and the skillsets of a field MP, are too broad to expect simultaneous mastery”.

          My first unit was USMC garrison LE. They did basically nothing but civilian police duty. The Marine LE manual required roughly 4x as much in service training as my civilian department can afford to give. I don’t know how good Army MPs are at “cop stuff” (rotating units through PMO duties vice dedicated units), but those Marines are at least as good as my current coworkers.

          That being said, patrol MPs got next to no specialized military training there, some had spent their entire hitches there, and it would have been an utter shitshow to expect Field MP performance out of them without a significant retrain. OTOH we frequently got Field MPs too short to deploy again finishing out their enlistments, with no real screen or selection, and never had real “this guy shouldn’t have been doing the job/ use of force” issues from them.

          Training and organizational culture counts for a lot.

        • http://batman-news.com Rick Randall

          And even the best trained and most flexible MP simply isn’t going to be able to replace Officer O’Malley, who’s been patrolling this neighborhood for nearly twenty years.

        • WinterBorn58

          Turnover where I work now is such that there was more experience stepping out of a car on Camp Lejeune than you are likely to get here. I’ve been on independent duty 2 years. The senior patrolman in my squad has 3 months on me. It’s a five man squad and not out of the ordinary.

        • Tom Kratman

          What area, generally speaking, is that? And why the turnover? I ask, because I can certainly imagine a move to make police enlist for the duration in the area, so that they cannot move until the problem is past.

        • Tom Kratman

          “It’s officer O’Malley of the Narc Squad and _you’rrrre_ busted.”

        • BigGaySteve

          The only study that ever found something to lower rearrests of black felons was of Katrina felons moved out of their areas. The most likely reason the arrest rates dropped is because local cops didn’t know people’s tendencies. If Tray has a history of pimping hoes the cops would know to talk to the women he hangs out with.

        • Tom Kratman

          Yes, internal mobility, which is nearly unlimited here, can make the cops’ job tougher whether in crime control or insurgency suppression.

        • Tom Kratman

          I was musing on this. There’s a modern tendency to try to call everything skills, and to ignore that which cannot be falsely but convincingly categorized as skills, because skills are teachable and the modern left is all about teaching – for certain highly expansive definitions of “teaching” – to effect change in people. But these aren’t really “skills,” they’re attitudes and approaches, which can be taught to some extent, yes, but are nearly impossible to teach if they go against basic outlooks and attitudes taken in more or less with mother’s milk.

        • WinterBorn58

          As to attitudes and approaches, is it possible that there are two separate and contradictory memes when it comes to use of force by US law enforcement that are both “mothers milk” level universal?

          On one hand you have due process.
          You can call the other vigilantism or frontier justice, but you don’t have to find a cop to find someone who’s got the attitude that adding lawyers just adds obfuscation to a question that’s apparent to all on scene.

          At that point, you get more of what you reinforce with training, right?

          Example: Someone once told me that I should never need to use the “resisting arrest” charge. Be rough enough when you make the arrest to even things out and call it good. My dad has said this was to be expected from Philly PD when he was growing up.

          Having only worked in the era of YouTube, I’ll be exactly as rough as I need to be, and “even up” by stacking as many charges as applicable and bargaining hard if at all.

          If I catch your meaning correctly, American “attitudes and approaches” would cover either option.

        • Tom Kratman

          If someone has two opposed attitudes “ingrained,” it’s most likely that neither is.

      • gaige

        Colonel, serious question here: what are the warning signs that an insurgency in the American Southwest is about to kick off? And is it likely to bleed over into someplace with significant Hispanic enclaves, like small town Iowa, where I was born and raised?

        • Tom Kratman

          We might not get much warning. In some places, it’s been a rush of robberies, especially of banks, to fund the insurgency, but here we’re talking about funding being no issue at all. In Malaya, the first real warning was a bunch of dead civil servants and agricultural managers. Here…here they may well go after the cops (and their families) but never announce they are. In other words, they may try to provoke the police with crime and only announce a political cause _after_ they get the police to overreact.

          There are so many possibilities, actually, I don’t think I can say which one or few will work with a straight face. But look at ownership of those three Spanish TV networks closely, all the same.

        • Michel Maiorana

          I think we may be seeing that nationwide now abetted by the Progs (Marxists) in politics, on campus, in the media, and the street agitators. If I’m right than we may expect problems nationwide and not just on the border.

        • Tom Kratman

          Another important factor: don’t let the war in the southwest wreck the country overall.

        • Michel Maiorana

          Could be dicey if the Marxist follow the pattern they have in the rest of the world. Especially if we have an insurgency going on in the southwest. This bunch doesn’t seem any smarter and they might discount the majority of gun owners. So many variables and I don’t think the people who should be dealing with this are doing more than scheming to grab more power.

        • Tom Kratman

          Oh, as Harry K said to me recently (if it isn’t obvious, he’s the other mind behind this series), the United States that comes out of this kind of crisis, if it comes to pass, is going to be very different, and a lot less nice, than the United States that went into it.

        • Michel Maiorana

          Well we can always line them up against a wall too.

        • BigGaySteve

          The only people that actually have diversity is white people. An hours drive can bring you do a different culture of whites, but every Mexican barrio and black area is like the rest. Die verse cities will suffer the worse, and liberals wearing brown/blackliesmatter T-shirts will discover the literacy rates are low.

        • PavePusher

          I wouldn’t expect such a bleed-over, as the goal would be to gain control of large areas. You wouldn’t be able to do that in Iowa, as those communities are too few. I do see a possibility that they could be suborned into distraction attacks far from the main conflict. Then again, they might also be more likely to be supportive of their adopted nation, being further from the ‘front’. I don’t know enough about the relative cultures to make any informed guess.

        • Tom Kratman

          I should have answered that more thoroughly. We’re going to have to infiltrate those communities all over the country. There are two dangers there…well, at least two. One is that our behavior turns them from pro or neutral into enemy. The related one is that they could well, whether they want to or not, serve as hideouts for what we might call the “deep attack,” aimed at coercing gringos far from the scene into supporting allowing the southwest to go, just to stop the short term risk to their own kids.

        • BigGaySteve

          If it goes that way the only thing keeping them alive would be the cops, like when the Native American in Tulsa went hunting gang bangers of the gang that killed his dad. He probably would have cleaned up the entire town if cops didn’t stop him. The mob does more to protect NYC from moslems than the cops.

        • PavePusher

          The difference being whether the mob is hunting actual criminals/terrorists, or innocent people.

          There’s a bad track record with that…..

        • BigGaySteve

          To be fair even the Tuskegee data base on lynching showed more equalism than todays death row. Around 1/3 of lynching’s were of whites, several in states that only lynched whites. By mob I meant Mafia.

      • WinterBorn58

        I think it’s less a propensity for violence issue, and more a management issue, distorted by the way so many police departments are mismanaged. I’ve experienced Union LE from the management side, and non-Union LE from the labor side (yeah, worst of both). While the Union approach is awesome from the labor side, it does tend towards keeping those who shouldn’t be on the job, on the job.

        For what it’s worth, I would much rather have a veteran on the beat than an armed social worker or worse yet a uniformed, armed bureaucrat. As much as I bitch about it, the lack of a union shield from politics and IA does wonders for convincing even someone who’s natural preference is “speed, shock and violence of action” to use nonviolent means whenever possible.

        From time to time, the veteran may have issues (in my case, I purely suck at “avoiding work” and will gladly make a custodial arrest when I’ve got PC for one, when many would prefer no paperwork if remotely plausible). Veteran issues are highly unlikely to leave me bleeding out waiting for backup that is taking its sweet time out of cowardice or laziness.

        It’s easier to leash a Malinois than turn a Lab into an attack dog.

        • Tom Kratman

          Well, just imagine for a bit that _all_ common law felonies* carry a death penalty. No attempt at rehab. No “one more chance.” No dull but comfortable and lengthy post-grad degrees in more effective and vicious criminal behavior. Fucking death within a week of conviction.

          Now imagine what size police departments need to be to deal with crime after our 4 _millionth_ public hanging of the wicked. We can then leave the Labs to patrol civilization, while transferring the Malinois to the border. We can also leave the labs on duty for longer, probably much longer, so that they can serve to promote and enhance civilization.

          See, cops are necessary to civilization, yes, but civilization is also necessary to cops. Without it, they have to turn into soldiers – no choice – which further degrades civilization. I think that conversion is a lot of what we’ve been seeing with the police, as our civilization begins to crumble around the edges (and some times and places, at the center, too).

          *Murder, Robbery, Mayhem (sort of malicious wounding), Rape, (we’ll probably give sodomy a pass, in this day, I think), Larceny, Arson, Manslaughter, Burglary, to which I would add Treason, and being or emulating Bernie Madoff, for the harm that kind of motherfuckery does to fiscal trust across our society.

        • Ori Pomerantz

          Why is treason not a common law felony? I assume it has always been a capital offense.

        • Tom Kratman

          I’ve always considered it to be in the same general class, however ISTR that, whereas common law felonies are judge-deemed felonies, Treason was statutory from a very early time, so didn’t need to be created by judges.

        • Ori Pomerantz

          Makes sense. Rule #1 for any ruler is to punish rebellion against themselves.

        • BigGaySteve

          Just make sure those 3 eyewitnesses don’t get on a small plane with 50 women raped by Bill Clinton.

          OT: did you see the first functional 14k gold toilet outside of the pentagon. http://freebeacon.com/culture/goldentoiletamerica/

        • Tom Kratman

          I wonder, did he get a grant from NEA for that?

        • BigGaySteve

          When I looked at the discus response I thought you meant the small plane with 50 women raped by Bill C, and I didn’t even think the Clintons could get away with a grant for that. No one would do it for free, most modern art is cheap likely used for money laundering. I owe you a couple million for cocaine and buy your painting for amount owed.

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      • Dbroussa

        Interesting take on why there has been a “rise” in police shootings. I suspect that may play a part, but a larger part is simply the rise of media access around the nation combined with a collapse in the faith in the institutional systems of civilization.

        • Tom Kratman

          See comment to WB 58.

        • BigGaySteve

          Girl cops only have 2 speeds, ticket & shoot. There is no intermediate. At the same place I had 2 black felon patients shot DOA by cops(at least the 2nd one was a girl cop) in one months time, I had a male cop complain he ended up with me all 3 times he came in as a patient after fighting with felons. I told him that I had no problem if he wanted someone else but he would have to wait until my co worker came back from a smoke break. Then pointed out that I only was scheduled to come in on Fri & Sat nights but I got paid better than if I worked 40hours dayshift, so I am pretty easy to avoid.

      • Michel Maiorana

        I think a good force multiplier would be to stick one B.P. officer in a Hummer with three guardsmen. the B.P. handles normal duties and the guard responds to cross border shooting. Between rotating the guard every two weeks and Ma Deuce on the roof it should reduce corruption within the B.P. and give drug dealers and rogue Mexican Army units pause before shooting across the border. ROE would have to be strictly and sensibly laid out for it to work.

        • Tom Kratman

          I’ve got an aversion to that approach I can’t quite put my finger on. Lemme get back to you once it crystalizes.

        • Michel Maiorana

          Was thinking more of the role up to the party using the NG two week annual training on a rotating basis. After the party starts cops need to be on the street. I agree. Of course as soon as the Governor of DC starts panicking the local cops get pulled off the beat anyway.

        • Michel Maiorana

          I was initially thinking Infantry riding with the BP but if cops make up a large portion of those units that would definitely be a problem.

        • Tom Kratman

          Two problems.

        • Michel Maiorana

          If you’re talking either pulling cops off the beat where they’re needed or leaving a big hole in the Infantry ranks. That’s not a problem that’s a nightmare.

        • Tom Kratman

          Yep.

          When God demonstrated some measure of the divine sense of humor by having me assigned to the Peacekeeping Institute, I’d regularly run into Europeans who couldn’t understand why the United States didn’t have a federal Gendarmerie – which are more or less light infantry with police training, or police with light infantry training; take your pick – to send overseas for peacekeeping. It was very hard to get through their heads (and impossible after I was effectively forbidden from talking to foreigners anymore; oh, yes, I was) that, “Because you fucking moronic frog, a) we don’t have the police-suitable personnel to spare and, b) even if we did, we don’t trust our government with that kind of thing. We _like_ having the coercive power of the nation split to infinity, or at least as much as possible.”

          However, one could imagine taking all the cops in the National Guard and USAR and building around them a national gendarmerie to back up the border patrol, expressly, with units drawn from all over so that no one community is screwed by losing too many cops at one time.

          Of course, the longer term downsides of this are easy to see, too.

        • Michel Maiorana

          Way back in 67 I found a book that said nuke war was survivable. I decided I would survive come what may. In the 70′s I became aware of other threats so I started studying. Life After Doomsday was a good guide in this. Fast forward to today and we find ourselves in the crazy years described in many SF books and RPGs as the years before a society collapses. I still feel this isn’t going to be confined to the border. Other players like Marxists, Jihadis, Black Separatists all taking advantage of any border unrest to cause disruption. Through actions by Progs and self-centered politicos we have been weakened greatly. This couldn’t have happened even 20yr’s ago.

      • Ori Pomerantz

        How long does a policeman need to be working a particular beat to be effective at intelligence gathering, etc. to know who is giving rice to the enemy?

        • Tom Kratman

          Going to vary with the individual and the community, I am sure. But that’s not the problem, so much, since we already have those cops on duty all over the area.

        • Ori Pomerantz

          Yes, but would they be harder to subvert than the rest of the population?

        • Tom Kratman

          They’re not as cohesive a crew. Example,. Sanford NC is loaded with Latin agricultural workers, but they’re not cohesive enough, nor a majority such that, given time, they won’t assimilate in. However, either a very heavy, as in Naziesque, hand in New Mexico or old Mexico, or a somewhat lighter but still offensive hand in their current area, might push them to active enmity.

        • Ori Pomerantz

          I meant the police. Are the police in the border regions primarily gringo or Hispanic? Is their primary loyalty to the US, or their communities?

        • Tom Kratman

          Doubt it’s a simple phenom.

        • BigGaySteve

          Leftists are trying to stuff the border patrol with Hispanics in hope that they will let in more low IQ voters. The truth is that leftist don’t believe in what they claim to believe. They think they want La Raza, Muslims, and American Indians at the table, but they’d be scared out of their gourds if they actually believed that they weren’t going to do the driving.

      • Jack Withrow

        I hope this series of columns is going in the direction I think it is. If I understand where you are going with this, you are not advocating using the Military as an extremely blunt instrument to control the border or to defeat an insurgency in the American SW. Instead you are putting the Police and BP in the primary role with the Military as a back up if I understand you correctly.

        Also I wonder how many understand your point on controlling the food supply.

        • Tom Kratman

          To control the border, no. To protect those who control the border, yes. To make the other side of the border difficult for the other side to use, maybe, with plausible deniability.

        • Jack Withrow

          I’ve been saying for a while now, that we will eventually end up forming something akin to the old NKVD Border Guards from the Border Patrol. I have no problem with Para-military Police on the border as that is what I think is an appropriate role for that type of police organization.

        • Tom Kratman

          Funny, a Brit MI type said the same thing to me recently.

        • BigGaySteve

          We should treat our southern border the way Mexico treats theirs.

      • PeaceMaker

        So do you think all the anti-police propaganda coming from the federal level as they militarize the police, part of a plan to drive a wedge between communities and police in preparation to reduce the effectiveness of police in stopping the insurgency ?
        ,

        • Tom Kratman

          I doubt any of them are bright enough for that. No, it’s just two different sets of instincts operating.

        • PeaceMaker

          I want to believe you are right. I just wonder if it may not be related to “your “insurgency. I just feel actors are doing what they can to break the common trust. You talked about how important police are to counter insurgency, it is just as important in any community. Destroy the community, the people are easier to control and less likely to unite against the central government, weather it is to fight a tax increase or revolt against an oppressive government.

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