CURVES FRANCHISE OWNERS: Share Your Story Here
July 15, 2008 by Sean Kelly
Filed under Business
Curves franchise owners and ex-franchise owners:
What’s it like to own a Curves for Women franchise?
Was it a good investment decision? Was the Curves franchise ownership what you expected?
Has it enriched you financially? Emotionally?
Would you recommend the Curves franchise to would-be franchise owners?
SHARE YOUR STORY, EXPERIENCES, INSIGHTS WITH A COMMENT.
ANOTHER CURVES OWNER,
you need to get a hold of yourself and take a deap breath and get away from drinking Howie’s kool aid. Curves International is facing so many lawsuits that it could be forced into bankrupcty before 09 is over. The majority of the clubs are all in finacial trouble with a few in isolated areas that are doing so so. Many of these owners who are having problems have been with Curves since it statred and they will all tell you the problem is with the management of Curves international and Howie. You need to start paying attention to what is happening with in the corporate structure around you. Go to yahoo owners group site and start reading all the negative between the lines there. We are all struggling to survive including you, another curves owner, so don’t try to lie to us as I’ve been in contact with over 65 percent of the clubs that are still open and many of those won’t make it tell June. The over seas clubs are closing faster than here in the states so wake up and join the lawsuits before it si too late and your left out in the cold.
North Jersey Owner:
As an owner, that is your responsibility to control your location. That is not a corportate problem. If your Manager has inappropriate relationships with clients, write her up or get rid of her. That is YOUR responsibility as an owner. It sounds as if your club is not professionally managed. That is why you are having challenges.
Rita
you said it right start running your club like a busuness that it is . When my members start to socialize on the circuit, I immediatly turn the music up loud and stop it. They know to visit after they workout \. I take it seriously so should they. Anyone that has control over members like that should be fired unless its the owner. I own and manage my business and have complete control over what happens in my club As for talking to all club owners I highly doubt you have done that,You sound very unprofessional just another crybaby you never contacted my coop thats because we wouldnt give you the time of day no negitivity here, not good for business any business, I do think curves needs to rethink who they give a franchise to so people commited to the health and well being of women is first and formost the money and revenue will follow.As far as bankruptcy for CI thats what they said in 08 hello they still are making Billions,Like I said not everyone is cut out for this business. Its not about how much money you make Its about caring and being professional and then the money flows in referalls flow in and so on. I am good at what I do and noone will stop me now. numbers look good for 09 even with recession. Discresionary spending down, like big ticket idems and vacations that cost thousands even in the great depression women still bought makeup women still care about how they feel and how they look Its up to the owner to get them in to the habit of exercise so they leave feeling good. Then they come back. So stop talking for all of us and have your pity party close your doors and do something else you drink your koolaid I will be drinking fine wine
Unhappy,
Dont waste your time. What I have learned is that when it comes to money, people will screw anyone for a dollar. This individual sounds like a narcissistic woman who uses the philosophy as corporate to manipulate and make money. You cant care about the well being of people and then talk about how you will have the finer things. I have also learned that in order to be a business owner, you have to be willing to say and do anything for money. You also have to be extremely ruthless and a good bullshi@@er. I am not any opf those things which is why I am shutting my club down Feb 7, 2009.
Its obvious why all your businesses are sinking– You stay on the internet all day debating. Why are you owners not out doing flyers, hosting talks at women’s organizations, working on referrals? You respond immediately to anything that is posted. Its shows that your focus is not in the right area–Growing YOUR business. I would be embarrassed to be a failure. I would also be embarrassed to be one of the MANY overweight owners that are out there promoting wellness–and dont even look like the picture of health. It is very obvious why individual units don’t make it–and you all are helping to set that example ever clearer.
Rita
right on the mark rita you set it well. I am sitting home with the flu and caught this site I cound not belive my eyes. these people dont have what it takes to be a curves owner not meant as an insult but its true. all business need marketing. I didnt want to mention the over weight group that I have seen. some dont even workout. not what curves is about what are they thinking so you see some of us will be here and some wont its ownership and pride and the desire to help women that makes a great curves not how much you invested and how much you lost thanks Rita for saying it like it is
Hmmm I didnt know a Size 8 was overweight. Interesting.
North Jersey- Why are you not out networking and marketing instead of arguing with people on this site. It is YOUR business. Make it work! Excel! Momentum equates to velocity, but get moving instead of sitting at a computer… Instead of convincing everyone of how hard you have tried, why not go get RESULTS. It’s not the effort, its the RESULTS that go to the bank.
Not bashing ya, its just my observation.
Rita
My situation is very different. I explained about the money situation above. We bought the business based on X amount of members. Projection sheets were made based on X amount of members. Our loan was given to us based on X amount of numbers. When we got in there there were 40 members less than what we were told. The person that sold us the gym did this to two other couples. One sued him. We could not afford to. We advertised, did flyers, internal promos, external promos, etc. Nothing worked. In addition, the manager was already running the gym for the other owner and basically had all members eating out of the palm of her hand. I wasn’t going to lose even more members by firing her. It was bad enough we were down 40 than what we were told. I tried a ton of stuff. Nothing worked. The members that go to my club want what they want when they want it and damn you to hell if you dont have the money. It got to a point where I had to go get a FT job. Even with me workingin the club, we never made a profit. We are closing Feb 7.
I just recently had a death in the family and have come to the realization that life is too short. I refuse to live my life doing something I dont enjoy or trying to constantly please others. Like I said, if you all are making money, GREAT! No disrespect but for others to come on here and verbally bash me and everyone else who have no idea the personal things going on or what I or anyone else looks like or my persoanlity, is just ridiculous and immature.
Ms. Wilson,
I agree with much that you are saying. It DOES take much effort to make a Curves business successful. I did every route, fliers, open houses,buddy referrals guest passes, employee incentives, health fairs, school fairs, special offers to teachers, healthcare workers and government employees.
I was just wondering to you live in a metro or rural community? My main issue is that there are too many franchises and my territories were very limited due to that issue.
It also saddens me to hear you talk poorly about overweight people when those are the people we love to serve through Curves!!
P.S. I didn’t know a size 10 was overweight either.
I am not talking about overweight clients- Yes, that is one segment we are here to help. However, there are a lot of heavy owners out there that continue not to live what they preach. If I was a prospect, why would I want to purchase a program from someone that is not even invested in their own health? How can an overweight owner or staff teach me anything if they can’t control their own. To me, maintaining weight should be a standard part of the franchise agreement.
Many owners that have left/are leaving are overweight. Although this is not always the case, it has been noted that underperforming centers are not operating to what consumers expect. That definitely affect business.
I want to see this brand strong. I urge anyone that is thinking about closing to ensure they are exercising every idea possible. Sometimes that takes blutness and honesty to admit.
I am in a metro area of about 20,000. Yes I was smart buying this business knowing the territory. And yes we do serve plenty of overweight women we are talking of owners not looking healthy and being overweight. some are truly fat not ten pounds but try 50 or more how can you sell a membership when you dont exercise yourself. Yes and buyer be ware. I find it hard to believe that you could not grow your business with all you have done. Maybe its your approach ask another owner for help. sales is a big part in this busuness. As too many franchises the strong will survive the others will leave. Which one are you. If you trulyy hate what you do it will come through as with new jersery she has burnout and wants to lay blame somewhere she was not cut out for this business or she would have grown it in spite of the promblems.She gave up too soon you can leave a busuness to someone else to run. I dont let anything get inthe way of my club not even personal as this is my baby and I take care of it and give it what it needs I am not trying to insult anyone here just you all need to know some of us are very happy in what we do and its not fair to show one side and not the otherI hope I am well enough to go back to work tomarrow as this is wearing me down negitivitty is not how I choose to lead my life and I can see whats happening here you all feed on each others misery that just is no way to live move on for your own sake
I live in a metro area of around 500,000. In our city, there are about 68 Curves not to mention other gyms.
I am no longer an owner.
I appreciate your comments and keep up the good work.
I tried to be nice. Your right I have major burnout! I am not laying blame anywhere. We were falsely misled and we were the suckers. We blame ourselves for buying this fad. It is nothing but an albatross.
When we talked to curves and our area director about this, we got no help.
As I said, we were not cut out to be business owners. I WILL NOT force someone to do something they dont want to do. I will not be a bitch to someone to make them join. I will not manipulate someone for a dollar. God bless ya if you can.
There are only certain people that are cut out for business. That is cold hearted people who could care less about the individual. The only thing they care about is getting that monthly due. If that’s who you are, and that’s what makes you successful, then enjoy sleeping well at night. I cannot be you and I would never want to be like you. Gary Heavin loves people like you and what’s ironic about all of that is that he claims to be a Christian which my last checking in with my faith, Jesus came to love everyone. Not to manipulate them and take advantage of people. So again as I said, sleep well tonight.
I am going back to the media and jourtnalism field which I have a degree in.
Curves owners past and present,
It should be obvious from this site there are serious problems with the way that Curves International has enter acted with their franchisee’s. No one can argue the fact that Curves health and fitness clubs are closing at an alarming rate. The closing of individual franchisee clubs is not limited to just the locations in the United States but is going on world wide. The results of the closings are the many group action law suits that have been filed against Curves international and Gary Howard Heavin, for over saturation of the market place, over estimation of profit potential, under estimating the operating costs and lack of franchise support. While some might try to argue that the lawsuits are just sour grapes from bad owners who should have never been an owner, they are plainly wrong. It makes me doubt that they even own a club but rather a Curves shill. Furthermore her suggestions on how to be successful is right out of the Curves manual. If you for one second think that all the owners who have closed or are facing closing haven’t followed the “ spokes of the wheel” you are either nuts or in need of psychological help. Curves International’s business decisions have been very detrimental to franchisee’s include but not limited to the lack of advertising which the franchisee’s pay monthly for in the tune of 30 million dollars. Be honest you hardly never if ever see national adds any more for Curves but you sure do for the other health and fitness clubs. Howe’s supposedly new Smart Technology was to revolutionize the fitness industry. What a joke it doesn’t even work, the cylinders leak, and it’s ten years old. To make matters worse, Howe’s way of stopping the lawsuits is to charge a 10,000 dollar closing fee. He than pretends to care by lowering the fee as long as you sign a release preventing you from joining a lawsuit. If you don’t he sends you a termination letter stating that you abandoned your territory and than threatens you with a lawsuit demanding up to 49,900 dollars. Well let me tell you something. Its not legal in Texas for him to do that so owners need to take action by first writing a complaint letter to the BBB in your area as well as Waco Texas. Than secondly they need to write the Attorney General in their state as well as the state of Texas. Thirdly they need to write a complaint letter to the Federal Trade Commission and than they need to talk to a lawyer in Waco Texas. What Curves International is trying to do is morally, ethically, and legally wrong in the state of Texas.
Unhappy,
It is very apparent that there are ‘Corporate Shills’ posting on here. In fact, I made that claim a few days ago in one of my postings on this site. We have also shown that CI does monitor this site.
Curves owners, past and present, need to be aware of this. The Corporate Shills will try to distract, defect and deny any responsibility of the failure of your club and the Curves system. In turn, these Shills will try to convince you that you alone are to be blamed for you the failure of your club. There emotional tactics will include, embarrassment, guilt and attempts to make you feel stupid. Just read though some of these posts, their information is nothing more then a regurgitation of Curves Corporate vomit.
Howard Gary Heavin is a gold toothed greedy soulless pimp and his staff is a bunch of worthless mechanical minded trolls.
Well said Fed up. Have you written the complaint letters to the BBB, attorney generals and the FTC yet?
I can assure you that I am NOT corporate but thanks for the compliment, but a hard working women. You are unfortunatly seem to be bitter and untrustworthy. You tell me why CI is responsible for your failure or anybody elses. YOu are responsilble and this site is for faiure that need to blame others in stead take responsibilty for your busuness. The curves system works fine if you work it the way the plan is laid out. I can and will attest to that. All you people need to blame someone and while I agree with you on advertising and such I will not hold my future in anybodys hands but myself not even coroorate. All the name calling is ridicoulous gary or howie what ever his name is is a billionaire he could care less about you or me.Hes made his money. I will do what it take to be successful in what I know how to do thats workout and keep women motivated. and I got news for you not all the curves are closing only the ones that dont have a clue to this business and I can sleep at night knowing my members are satisfied with what I offer them thats how I get my referals and there are still plenty of us out there.You people are crazy if you think somthing will come of this. maybe he will be a better judge on who he does busuness with that is what I think needs to change not for everyone so yes they will fail. These posts are from the same people over and over again get a job and work for sombody so you can be told what and where and how to act then earn a paycheck, because busuness is not for everone. you all prove that
Another Curves Owner,
If I may offer you some advice, you might want to do a spell check on your post before you publish them here. You your short post there were no less than 27 spelling and grammar errors. Some were really bad too. It is hard to take someone serious in business when they spell the word business as, “busuness”.
You are wrong again girly the majority of curves franchises are in serrious financial trouble and it’s not because of the way they have conducted their business. Most of the blame can be put right at Howie’s door step. You say you are an owner than go to yahoogroupscurvesowners site and read about all the complaints they have with corporate. Explain to all of us where the add money that owners pay monthly, that amounts to over 30 million is spent. Explain why Howie is now trying to cheet owners out of sign up fees by allowing aarp members to sign up on line and the curves complete program. Why howie has repeatedly tried to force owners to go curves smart as new technology when it is really 10 years old and never worked than and does not work now. You are obviously a corporate shill or someone who has drunk way to much of Howie’s kool aid. Why don’t you check out the law suit by calling the waco district court and read the actuall court proceeding and than tell us that nothing will come out of this. Try selling your club and find out that it is worthless as some are being sold for just a dollar. You are a joke and you know as well as all of us do that these posts are not the same people over and over again but by hundreds unpon hundreds of owners that have had enough of Howie’s lies and dishonest business tactics. If you do own a franchise you are probably one of the ones who is advertising free weight class to members and nonmembers in your area knowing full well that there is a cost of buying his new book associated witrh the class. That alone should be enough to put you in jail for false advertising. How can you sleep at night ripping your members off like that? You are no better that Howie himself but you and Howie will both have a day of judgement sometime in the near future and you ma’m surly won’t pass. Greed will be your downfall and I hope when the time comes you will think back on this post and remember that you were warned.
unhappy brought up a good point Ci estimates how much you can make and operating costs.what a fool. I fyou dont know that this business cost virtuatly nothing to run compared to other businesses or I should say low cost and the skys the limit the more members the more money good service more referals good positive atmosphere breed women wanting in.I am in business for myself and I love it. you my friend must be a bitter apple among many sour grapes as you say. and I say good ridence we dont need people like you in the business of keeping people strong and healthy, theres nothing healthy about your attitude you cant possiblly be successful I understand that you lost money and are bitter so move on already
you talk like a drunk or are just tired. what book what weight classes are you a nut. false advertising are you a crazy person. my club is not for sale. why would i sell something that works for me. I dont have anything to do with coparate I try not to talk to them only in the beginning as I had to learn how to run my curves. my friend thats also an owner is laughing out of control over ignorance is is unbelievable how silly you sound. you are responsible for your destiny dont you get it. If you are not good at something dont beat it to death go on try something else. I love my members and they appreiciate me I give them what they pay for a good exercise program not sour grapes
calm down girly you may have a stroke as it is obvious that you are upset. Just look at your spelling mistakes. Go back and anwser the questions instead of trash talking. We are trying to give you a form to explain why you are so pro Curves international but it is hard when you don’t use facts. If you are an owner you know what the promotion is for this month and all about the new weight management classes and books that are being used for that class. You know full well that the class is advertised for free but is a classic example of bait and switch. They have to have the book to take the class and you know you are selling it to them. Get real girl there are too many owners here to pull the hair over our eyes and by the way we are done with drinking Howie’s kool aid. The only thing you have said that has a ring of truth is that you try not talk to corporate. Of course you don’t as they never answer or return their phone calls. I do want to take time to thank you for your post though as we love to hear all about the lies that some owners seem to try and spread about their success. You should know by know that all of us here can see right through yours as we have been there and done that. I was going to end this with the satement why don’t you act like a fart and just blow in the wind but instead I will just bid you a good night and good luck as if you are really an owner you are going to need all the luck you can muster. Have a good evening and I hope and pray you can sleep at night knowing you are no better than a snake oil salesmen.
your a strange little person. not all the women do curves weight loss, they go to weight watchers jenny craig and nutrasystem we shove nothing down there throat only exercise and they love it but I have to say you make me laugh make fun of my typing go ahead this site is a joke for entertainment purposes only you and your koolaid grow up bitter little man.Is this your site do your regulate every comment if it doesnt fit your need do you bark then bite your a blow hard. how can anybody take you seriously bite me asshole
one more thing I am not pro CI only MY business what I am good at and do you really think you know every owner and everthing that goes on with CI now who is blowing in the wind just a site for bashing no wonder you lost your shirt tales and Ill sleep well and keep on smiling
Wow. What a page of information this thread is. First off, Let me say I have never heard of Gary Heavin prior to reading this board. I’ve never owned a Curves franchise, although I have in front of me the sale of a local club which my wife and I are considering purchasing. I say considering based on not yet seeing the financials. Now before you laugh, let me tell you WHY we gave the idea serious consideration BEFORE we see the numbers.
We needed to decide if this was something we would enjoy doing. Before we see if we CAN get there, we need to see if we WANT to get there. To me, a lot of folks here didn’t really look at what they were getting into before they got into it. And when that happens, usually the results aren’t good. So as we look at Curves, I see a sales business. (Is there really any other kind?). You’ve got to be constantly building, networking & promoting. Because, as a Curves franchisee, you appear to be selling something a lot of people want. A better body and life. But, to the Mrs and me, this is a networking and sales job. You’re constantly selling the idea, the vision, the ease. But more than anything else, your selling yourself and the comapny behind you. We understand that, And if we actually decide to get involved, we’ll do that. I will tell you if you’re NOT doing that, you’re not going to get the results you want. I suspect some of that is happening here, right now.
The Mrs & I have been successful franchisees of Dominos Pizza and Petland. Both made a profit. Both were eventually sold for a profit. We have also purchased and built and independent pet store, grown it to double it original size and sold it at a profit as well. We also franchised a Maaco outlet. Got out alive, but not so good on that one. :) They say you get one of two things when you go into business. Profit or education. We learned a few things with Maaco. (Our problem, not theirs) We own a mini-storage facility today. While underperforming, it is profitable and has basically doubled in value in the last 13 years. I list this not to toot our horn or make anyone feel bad. Merely to qualify that, we believe good decisions and effective operation tend to lead to success. And the opposite is true as well.
I honestly see there is an issue with this company. It didn’t take long. When I saw the $195 a month minimum franchise fee, I got the joke. I swear this is true. I asked the Mrs. “I guess you don’t get much of anything in terms of visits for two grand a year do you?”. We both chuckled. I’m just guessing here… but 500 members X $40 X 5% = $1000 a month. Not exactly the numbers that Class “A” support demands. When you do a Curves franchise, you’re buying a name, a design scheme and a little phone support at best, I’d suspect. Not a whole lot more. What you buy with your royalty is the right to use a system and it’s trademarks. I haven’t seen the franchise agreement, but I’ll bet money it says something like… “CI does not represent a certain location will make a certain amount of money”. I’ve READ a couple of dozen of ‘em from various companies. They all do. Anyone want to raise their hand when we ask who skipped oer that?
And while you are a partner with your franchisor, you also are the guy who signs the checks. IT’S YOURS. If you have a territory which extends for 5 miles, before you sign up, make sure it’s protected. If you are entitled to five miles of protection, expect the same. If you draw from five miles then your neighboring club will draw from five miles. You need 10 miles of seperation. It’s fair. It’s logical. Demand it in the initial agreement. If they won’t give it to you then WALK AWAY. Did you look at that? If we don’t get what we need, we will not do it. Period. Some here apparently didn’t really understand what they needed. Or what they signed. My question would be… “Did people really sign a franchise agreement without understanding the precise territorial limits?”. My guess is YES. And I’m sorry. That really IS a shame.
But as I read this baord, I see a bunch of “franchisees” who feel they have been wronged. What I DON’T see, is a bunch of business people who have had their franchise contract violated. If anyone has an example of something in there which was violated, I’m VERY interested in seeing it. We’re not looking for a legal situation later. Anyone?
I suspect a lot of this is the result of the low cost of getting into a Curves franchise. In fact, they market it that way. Maybe you folks actually have a case. They may be guilty of taking advantage of the uninformed. But is looks to me like they oversold the market. Exactly in accordance with what everyone agreed to. Anyone have a contractual contradction?
My point is this. A person should “Franchise” a business to get an advantage over someone who does NOT franchise a business. That is not the same as “A person should franchise a business because the franchisor knows exactly how to run a business.” It’s YOUR business. I have always treated my franchisor as any other supplier. “A provider of a product or service we desire for a fee”. (but sometimes they can ber the crankiest of vendors) :)
As I see this board, I see massive burnout, disgust and frustration. And later, when the franchisor sets up a board to allow franchisees to share common issues? A movement over here to go over there and tell them we think they suck. What a waste. There are Doctors, Lawyers, Indian chiefs and business owners. I am neither a Doctor Lawyer or Indian Chief. And I’m OK with that. I AM, however, a successful business owner. I suspect many of the angry voices here have the abilty to succeed in another occupation. I sincerely hope they move on to where they can succeed, rather than trying to assert blame for their misfortune.
There’s a few folks here from the “Happy” side who know where I’m coming from.
I saw a post here from someone who said basically “If this lawsuit doesn’t pay off in the next year I’m going to lose my house.” My goodness what does this tell you? What I want to say is…”Please I’m begging you. Get off the Internet lawsuit thread and get into the game.” NO ONE should lose their house with a years warning.
All The best to you all.
A Guest from Texas.
Texas Visitor makes some interesting points.
Maybe ya’ll can address these actual points and we can take a break from the namecalling and venting (which has degraded to profanity and fart references).
Texas Visitor writes: I see a bunch of “franchisees” who feel they have been wronged. What I DON’T see, is a bunch of business people who have had their franchise contract violated.
Strip away all the hurt feelings and disappontment with unChristianlike attitudes for a moment… the heart of this is a plain old contract dispute, correct? If you go to court, won’t this boil down to whether CI did what it was contractually obligated to do in the UFOC and the FA you guys signed? Or is it more than that?
What is it that Curves promised, specifically, that it did not deliver?
Texas Visitor writes: I have always treated my franchisor as any other supplier. “A provider of a product or service we desire for a fee”.
This is, in a practical sense, what it comes down to, right? You are paying them for use of the name, trademarks, certain services and materials that you pay them $1K a month for and agree to adhere to their rules.
As TV implies, franchisors are not contractually obligated to make you successful or even to be nice people.
Doesn’t this boil down to the fact that it’s the franchisees job to attract, service and maintain the necessary membership (300?) from the surrounding 3-5 miles from their club, and the FRs job is to give training, support & tools to HELP them in that effort?
For those who have not closed and are still struggling along: what, specifically, do franchisees want CI to supply or do differently for their monthly fee? What tools do you need that you aren’t getting?
What could they do to enable you to get and maintain the “300″ (or other magic membership #)?
I am sympathetic to the situation that franchisees are in, but am not clear on what specifically franchisees think CI should provide (or should have provided) for them to implement.
thank god for educated responsible people I knew they were out there
Another sad Curves story . . .
http://www.mykawartha.com/news/article/36701
And another . . .
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlboroughexpress/4831848a6563.html
http://www.mykawartha.com/news/article/36701
“They began discussing the potential sale of the franchise with representatives of Curves International and showed the facility to potential buyers earlier this month. When they started filing paperwork with Curves’ corporate office regarding the closure and possible sale, they were shocked to learn that it was no longer theirs to sell.
“As soon as they got the name and contact information of the potential buyer, they cut us right out it,” Mr. Hayes added.”
_______________
Franchisees have a 120 member Curves that lost $100K but they are eager to sell it to the next, um, franchisee. They spent prepayments and cashed one even weeks after closing.
CI doesn’t know why it closed but are also happy to resell the failed location.
This is one of those stories with NO good guys, isn’t it?
Texas visitor,
Befor you make the decision tro purchase a Curves please wait until I have time to finish my post in regards to you questions. It will be up either late tonight or first thing in the morning. Thanks, the unhappy curves owner who is getting happier by the day.
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Dear Texas Visitor,
So your wife and you are thinking of buying a Curves Franchise. Just by showing up on this site shows you know how to do the research in order to make an informed decision and your list of accomplishments certainly prove you have the intelligence and fortitude to succeed in business. It does surprise me that you had never heard of Gary Howard Heavin before reading this board as he along with five other people started Curves. What that does show me is that you need to do a lot more research before you make the decision to purchase the franchise and I don’t mean just seeing the financials. I would suggest that you start by doing a Google search on Howie as well as a search of the Waco news paper for all stories good and bad related to him. By doing so you will very quickly get the idea of what the character is of the man you will be in business with if you decide to purchase a franchise. While I have a lot that could be said, unfortunately it is all very negative, so I will leave it to you to draw you own conclusions after you do the research.
After reading some of the posts on this site it is easy to see and feel the frustration, disgust, and anger that many of the owners are going through as they truly believe they have been wronged. Many have lost everything and have had to close there franchise only to receive a slap on the face by Curves International by being informed that they now owe a ten thousand dollar closing fee and a request to sign a release so that they can’t join the group action lawsuit to recoup their losses. There are some on this board that believe it was the owners fault for going broke as they were not qualified to either own their own business or that they didn’t put enough effort in networking and promoting their business or as you put it selling yourself and the company behind you. While this may be the case with some of the owners, I am here to tell you that for most owners that is not the case. The group action lawsuit is based on four common threads that all franchises have in common. Those issues are over saturation of the market, lack of support/services, under-estimating initial investment costs and wrongful representations made regarding break-even and profitability. While I believe that there is merit to this case we will have to let the courts decide the outcome although I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if it is settled out of court.
Now while I don’t believe this has much to do with the violation of the contract as much as just plain fraud on the UFOC, there are many other lawsuits that have been filed (and many more to come) that are based on violations of the franchise contract and I will try to address some of them now.
As you know all franchise agreements are one sided in favor of the franchisor and Curves franchise agreement is no different. With that being said there are certain rights that are implied specifically and indirectly towards the franchisee as well as certain obligations for both the franchisor and the franchisee. It is our contention that Curves International has indeed violated our franchise agreement on several major points by not enforcing the franchise agreements and allowing franchises to operate their business in a manner not in accordance with our franchisee agreement thus causing monetary damages to our facilities. An example of this would be where our franchise agreement gives us the sole right to a particular territory including advertising rights for that territory. Because of the over selling of franchises in metro areas many clubs have complained that neighboring territories are advertising in their protected territory. As owners we all realize that when you do a mailer it is sent out by zip codes so some overlapping can occur but when a neighbor franchise blankets your territory with ads and you complain to Curves International about it violating your contract they never responded. The franchise agreement is also very specific about site selection of your club within your territory stating that it must be approved by Curves. It has always been the policy that you site location must be near the center of your territory. This policy was strictly adhered to up until 2003. At that time clubs in the metro areas were allowed to open on the edge of their territories even though it was against the franchise agreement. Again when you complained to Curves International nothing was ever done to resolve the dispute and in most cases they never even acknowledge the complaint. Furthermore this caused competition between the neighboring clubs for members and many of the clubs stared to put in unauthorized equipment to attract more members. In the franchise agreement it clearly states that any unauthorized equipment was grounds for termination. Once again clubs that where complying with all the requirements set forth in the franchise agreement were left at a disadvantage over the ones that weren’t following it. The owners that were in compliance would file complaints with Curves but again Curves would refuse to acknowledge the complaints. Another big problem that arose from the over selling in the metro areas was that neighboring clubs would consistently try to hire other Curves owners managers and trainers. This was done knowing that members who worked out on that particular manager or trainers shift in all likelihood would transfer to that club. This is without question a violation in the franchise agreement as it specifically states under section 6-J, Franchisee agrees not to attempt, directly or indirectly, to induce , or attempt to entice any employee of another franchisee of Curves to leave such employment. Again owners would complain to Curves International but nothing was ever done. In fact the clubs who would complain were sometimes black balled and were penalized by Curves International by not receiving customer appreciation bags that were paid for by Curves International to be handed out by franchisee’s to their members. By now you should be getting the picture of how many of the franchises that were complying with the requirements set forth in the franchise agreement were having their franchise contract violated by Curves inaction on enforcing the contract thus causing monetary damages to their clubs. One of the main purposes of a franchise agreement is make sure that each franchise has a level playing field. It is up to the franchisor to make sure that these contract obligations allowing a level playing field are enforced but Curves has presently refused to even acknowledge the complaints. Another example of how our franchise agreement was violated deals with the resolution of development disputes. The agreement has a non-binding mediation clause that states both parties shall attempt to resolve any disputes through mediation in Waco TX. before instituting any legal or administrative proceeding. Owners who had major disputes with Curves who formally requested this non-binding mediation again had no response from Curves and even when they would hire a lawyer and have them send in the required notice for the mediation the lawyers were told no mediation was needed as the dispute was being researched. They would never get back to either the lawyer or the owner leaving the owners without a resolution to the dispute. There are many more cases where owners feel that the franchise contract was violated by Curves International but these should give you an idea on why so many of the owners are upset and filing law suits. Most of the owners that I have had personal experience with are honest, ethical, hard working, dedicated Christians who did follow the procedures, guidelines and policies that Curves had promoted in their franchise agreement only to be wronged by not having the guidelines, policies, and procedures enforced by Curves. I believe over 65 % of the club closings are in the metro territories while the rest is made up of a mixture of clubs. The majority being clubs that were sold in population area’s that were too small to support a facility and the rest being just bad business people who shouldn’t have ever bought their own business. At this time this is the best estimate I can come up with, but in March when the new UFOC becomes available for 2008 we will be able to figure the exact percentages.
Now let’s cover the point of you and your wife buying a franchise. We have been with Curves since 1997 and it can be very gratifying helping women to reach their weight goals and the program as far as the circuit is concerned is great. All of our clubs have been profitable and while the economy has certainly not helped our bottom line we are still in the black, I’m sure we will weather the storm as well as any other small business. It has required us to work more than I would like but we still have the passion of helping women to get fit, healthier, and to have a better quality of life. With that being said I ‘m still not sure if I would purchase another one at this time. There are a lot of problems with Curves International that are not being addressed by Howie or for that matter anyone at Curves International. While I don’t have the time to go through all of them if you read the owners posts on this site http://www.franchisepick.com/franchise-controversies/curves-watch-curves-franchise-posts-discussions/ you will certainly get the drift of what I’m talking about. If the franchise that you and your wife are looking at is in a metro area you need to really do some soul searching before you make that commitment. If it is in a city of 30 to 50 thousand with no other Curves and the price is no more that 2 to 2 ½ times earnings than it maybe a good investment. If the area is smaller that 20 thousand forget it, walk away before it’s too late. Regardless of where the location is don’t just look at the financials. Books on any small business are too easy to manipulate so ask for the last three months projection sheets, the last three months of bank records and the last three months of traffic control sheets. The traffic control and projection sheets have too be sent Curves International on a monthly basis and these are all computer generated reports and would be very hard to falsify Check to make sure the projection totals equal the bank deposits for each month and than look at the total membership per month found on the traffic control sheets. . The total membership times the members monthly fees should total slightly less than the total deposit. If it doesn’t than they are stating more members than they actually have and you will see this complaint on many of the posts of owners who bought resale club.
The last thing I would like to address is your statement “And later, when the franchisor sets up a board to allow franchisees to share common issues? A movement over here to go over there and tell them we think they suck” is neither accurate nor warranted. Never have I seen anyone post a statement for owners to go to the yahoogroupcurvesowners site and to post anything negative. It has been stated that for owners who are having problems it is a good site of positive owners who are committed to helping other owners with ideas on how to better operate their business. While the discontent with Curves International is certainly evident on the site it is certainly kept to a minimum as it is monitored by Curves International.
What ever your decision is regarding the purchase of a Curves franchise please keep us informed and good luck in all your future endeavors. God Bess and your wife.
Unhappy:
Thanks for clarifying your issues/complaints.
I have tried to distill them into a list and group them so they can be more easily addressed. Please let me know if I’ve missed or misrepresented any of them.
Pre-sale issues
You contend that:
CI sells franchises in markets that can’t sustain a club
CI under-estimates & represents initial investment costs
CI wrongfully represents break-even and profitability.
Franchisee to franchisee relationship issues
You contend that:
Franchisees compete with each other, partly due to over-saturation
CI does not protect franchisees from other franchisees advertising in their protected territory.
CI does not protecting franchisees from other franchisees poaching managers/employees from their clubs
Franchisor Support Issues
You contend that:
CI does not provide adequate support/services
CI charges for support (mentor) the royalty should cover (NJ)
CI does not respond to or address franchisee complaints
CI does not respond to or address franchisee non-binding arbitration requests
CI is indifferent to franchisee failure; charges a $10K failure fee
Is this list accurate?
The last thing to add to the list should be if you can actually get someone on the phone like your area director and they suggest a two day tune up with a mentor, the franchisee is responsible for all expenses of the mentor for the tune up. They dont just send the mentor out for two days to help you. If you want one, it’s at your expense not CIs. Ridiculous.
Well Sean there are lots of other issues but Texas visitor wanted to see examples of the contract violations which franchisee’s are claiming. This is a few but there are others and the list just goes on and on. Their are many complaints such as CI terminating yet still collecting franchise fees and not allowing the franchisee to try to resolve the disupte by tne means and proceedures listed in the franchise agreement. Just read all the posts put 2 and 2 togeather and you will begin to see all the contract violations.
unhappy has put forth a good analysis of franchise purchase considerations. we were owners for for almost 5 years, but territory population too small for replacing departing members. — wish we had pre-awareness of how high attrition would be.
PAST AND PRESENT OWNERS,
Don’t forget to send your complaint letters to the BBB in your area as well as waco Tx. and your states attorney general as well as TX. and the FTC. Here are the links that you can go to to file the complaints.
http://www.bbb.org/
http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml
Like I said this business is good for some not for all as to your questions. All business expenses are yours and yours alone. including mentoring, why not ask another owner thats doing well for help and brainstorm thats what we do monthly also ads are there, only a phone call away we have three in our area.as far as pofit and losses different owners can make a world of difference so these numbers can change dramatically.As for support every owner has access to curves community 24 hours a day. you have to use it to stay informed all know this, as for locations there all vary its up to you to get demographics and territory as with any business franchise. Location and parking are very important.Although I dont agree with a failure fee that high when one fails who pays for attorny costsand other feesassociated with closing. should franshisee just walk away. not in the real world. Franchisees of all kind compete with each other that is business. Energy andprofessionalism are different in each club as you can see from this site. I read through it recently and heard about this so called suit and still no update makes me wonder why. Listen I dont agree on every move curves makes but I try to make the best of every situation. If you really feel you have been wronged then fight but say its that way for everyone. There are plenty of us doing fairly well in spite of economy. So are some resturants retail and yes car dealers that compete everyday. Its about staying positive and making a good living. Negitivity can only lead to failure. Focus and make it work for you. I am with melissa and will not visit this negitive site anymore. I do wish you all the best even if its not curves
ACO,
You have not responded to any of the question just the same bull s—t that corporate is trying to use. Very few of the clubs are doing ok and if your is thats great but I for one do not believe you. We have the facts on our side such as the number of clubs that have gone curves smart. Are you curves smart? Less than 50 percent are and yet there is no advertising for non curves smart clubs. We all pay advertising fees each month and yet non smart never see’s it. If you want positive go to the yahoocurves owners site and you will really see the true picture. We aren’t down on you because your an owner. We all love the concept and our clubs but we can’t put up with the dishonesty, unethical business practises of Cures International. I for one don’t know how you can stick up or defend them in any manor after what we have all had to endure.
I cant resist one more time to tell you.That you contridict yourself. Several blogs ago you said you were turning a profit in your club.who said I was defending CI And yes I am a smart club.Best thing I did for my business Retention is way better.So now I see what is going on you didnt want to spent the money to change and now your angry so your on a mission to try and discedit CI. Change is good in every aspect of life Technogy is where its at. I dont care how old technolgy is> I only know it works for thee members. Yes a little frustrating at times to get the kinks out so what I has boosted the market I do believe the numbers are 50/50 on curvessmart, the ones that didnt go will eventually die out and the rest will get a second chance to switch over.How can you say all the clubs are failing where do you get your facts, And that you dont believe me about my club. I could care less want you think, all you seem to do is man this blog, do you even work at all.If YOur new yahoo group want change then ralley them for change dont trash my company and yes you do it every day. Curves has done wondes for women you said it yourself.Go after the corporate but leave all of us out that work hard to succeed and are doing that with honesty and integrety. Because I take offence to that as I believe in what I do makes a difference.Believe me I am not defending CI as I too give them quite the cut each month. but its their name I use so I have no choice just get over it, consider either changing or get out of the business and let other do it insteadLike it or not curves is still the biggest most reconized womens fitness franchise in the industry and I am glad. Please understand I mean no malice just step back and see from another point of view. There are the strong and the weak, only the strong will survive. I choose full steam ahead. I love my curves and fitness has never been more popular then it is now, with people reconizing how important it is to exercise for good health. I plan on riding this train for a long time
Well I kmow she would be back but once again see gives us no evidence that she doing OK BUT TELLS US SHE BOUGHT THE SMART EQ. iT DOESN’T WORK AND IS 10 YEARS OLD NOT NEW TECH. sHE HAS OBVVIOUSLY LOST HER MIND FOLKS AND WON’T ANSWER QUESTIONS JUST GIVES HOWIES TALK THE YAHOO GROUP YOU IDIOT IS SPONCERED BY CURVES INTERNATIONAL AND JUST PROVES YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
ACO,
Someone on here gave a fairly good definition of “doing well” on this website. I believe it was, “taking home $4,000 each and every month for the past two years while working less then 50 hours a week.” ACO, do you meet these criteria?
While it is true that as a franchisee you purchase the right to use the name of the franchisor, however that is only part of the picture. Fact is that franchisors have certain obligations to the franchisees as well. Those obligations have been set forth on this website more then once. I will not repeat them, but you can go ahead and read them as they are the source of contention with CI.
Do you know how to read.You sound like an idiot.you repeat yourself over and over. wheres your proof.Sounds like your jeolous.coundnt qualify for smart or too broke, so you trash everyone.your the fool and you discredit this/ whole blog. We can see whats happening here. No proof to back up your BS thank God for Delete Get with the program your a loser
ACO & Unhappy:
Please stop with the namecalling, personal insults and ad hominem attacks.
Attack the argument not the arguer.
Thanks,
The management
FYI:
We set up a separate site for those wanting to buy or sell fitness clubs and/or equipment.
Buyers:
http://www.yourtownhealthclub.com
Sellers:
http://www.yourtownhealthclub.com/category/sell-your-equipment/
Hey, Unhappy, Thanks for the insight. If I can run through the points Sean distilled from your post.
1) “They Sell a franchise where a club can not succeed due to population.” That’s a little bit of a them problem, but more of a ME problem. If I agree to try it, I can hardly say it’s their falult for letting me.
2) They underestimate initial costs. I read the UFOC and they seem in line to me. (Sign seems low) I can see how you could not pay attention and blow the budget, but I don’t believe their all that low.
3) They Misrepresent profitability. They don’t claim to vouch for the financials in an existing unit and 4-C of the freaanchise agreement says They don’t guarantee profitability. I’d hope folks read those contracts.
You contend they don’t “Referee” disputes between franchisees. That’s legit and a problem. You could predict it based on the small amount of dollars you pay them, but it’s still a problem. It DOES strike me CI is, at best, disorganized.
There is also a contention that they don’t give enough support and they charge for it.
A 300 member club (Not bad as I see it) at $35 a pop, full retail pays $525 in royalties a month. Obviously even a nearby unit visit eats up the whole month’s revenue for them. Even Waco to San Antonio, TX. $200 mileage Meals, Time, Hotels if they stay over, etc..etc.. Not to mention they need to staff the office. There’s just not enough physical money in an average franchise to get much support. And the franchise contract clearly says you really don’t have the right to expect any.
You cover some really good Due Dilligence points which many need to heed. Although if you’re already a franchisee, It’s a little late. :)
I’m glad to see you appear to be profitable. Clearly too from your response you also understand the issues. However it’s clear that you TOO are frustrated with the CI overall plan. Of lack thereof. I wil disagree with you about their “Unethical” practices. I suspect it’s more disorganization and cluelessness than deception. (Which honestly doesn’t really matter. Idiots lose your money, croooks steal your money. Either way, you got no money.:) )
I have found them to not really be aware of their franchisee clientele or what they truly need. I’ve received the UFOC and an application to transfer the unit. Also, 1 year old financials. What I haven’t received is an actual map or description of the territory. I found that rather humerous. (I found it out from another source, but I wonder how many other potential buyers would have.) I also have had ZERO contact with CI aside from email, or ANYTHING from the current owner, as according to the confidentiality agreement, I’m not supposed to talk to them. Considering they’re exoecting my to plop down a modest amount of cash, I’d have expected a phone call at least. Needless to say, there is a good deal of the “Mushroom Theory” going on here.
It’s pretty clear to me that when you mix that with the low entry cost, which undoubtedly attracts lesser qualified business people, CI is going to have a higher than normal washout rate. Considering there are probably quite a few folks who really can’t afford to lose, this could be quite a problem. And it looks like it is, to some.
The $10,000 abandonment fee is also sort of a “Slap in the face”. A better way to do that would be to charge it up front and then refund it upon the successful completion of the franchise contract. Since we would never have agreed to that, I suspect we’d have never come to terms with CI anyway.
Without regard to the franchisor, we have decided to not proceed, based soley on the unit’s financials.
Apologies for my comment about going to Yahoo and posting negative stuff. I swore I read that in here, but I don’t see it. Maybe somewhere else. But not that I see here.
I wish you folks all the best. Your concept makes sense and the operational plan seems reasonable. If I can draw off some experience I’ve had from other franchises…
a) Find a way to fix marketing in larger markets. In the city I was looking at, we could not advertise in the daily paper, because it’s too expensive by ourselves and mostly out of our fractional area. Franchisee advised metro advertising will lift all boats. Get CI to agree. (Good Luck)
b) Organize POSITIVELY. Find a way to have a voice to improve things with CI. All of you win with higher membership. They know this too.
c) Remember where you are. As I wander through this public board, I wonder how “Heavin is a liar” and “Curves Smart doesn’t work”, affects sales. Probably not positively.
d) Decide what you want to do and do it. If you’re going to be in, then GET IN. If you think you ought to be out, then GET OUT. This is a “you” thing here. The day you stop moving forward, you’re moving backward. Work it, OR sell it. Operate it while trashing it isn’t a good strategy. I speak from experience.
Again all the best to all of you. Since this topic is no longer relevant to us, I’ll take my leave.
Good Luck.
TX Visitor
Wise move, Tx visitor. You won’t regret it. I only wish I had been so diligent before we destroyed our family’s finances by getting involved with Curves.
It was almost worth closing my club so I wouldn’t have to hear “CHANGE STATIONS NOW!” anymore.
(snickering).