Further Thoughts on “Friendly” Play
There’s been a bit of discussion lately among my local poker friends as to what “friendly play” consists of at a table. I play a few different games during the week, one a home game where it’s just friends and low blinds and moderate buyins, another slightly higher stakes ring game with many more unknown faces and strange action. At the unraked home game, it’s basically always friend against friend in the action, so there can’t be too much discussion over who does what: we’re playing to take on another’s money, straight up. At the ring game, though, the theory is we’re mostly there to play against “other” people: ie: I’m not going to try to put moves on my friend when there are 6-7 other people I don’t know from Adam at the table.
So at this bigger game, I try to employ what I consider “friendly” or “soft” play against friends. This doesn’t mean, to me, though, that you don’t ever play a hand against your friend. Sitting at a table for 6-10 hours together, we’re likely to bump into one another at one point or another.
Preflop, usually if my friend raises large and I find KQ off or QJ suited or some sort of hand I might play even for a raise against a stranger, I fold to let them control the action. I will still play a suited ace or any pair or AK AQ, etc., against them to feel out the hand, especially if I know there are going to be several other players in on the hand. You can’t fold your big hands, even to friends, and in the end you’re still competing with one another, but a bit more respect with starting hands and loose allowing of control on flops with drawing hands I think is a good way to play “friendly.”
After the flop, if it ends up just a friend and I in the hand, I play pretty much as straightforward as you can, as long as I know they are doing the same. If I flop top pair big kicker, or a set, or an overpair, etc., I am going to bet strong like I would against anyone else to let them know I have something. If they call, I give them credit for a hand and maybe we check it down unless the hand turns into a monster. You can’t let a friend make his hand free, but I also don’t usually try to bluff a friend. I try to let the best hand win. If I have a draw at the nut flush and they aren’t betting hard hard, I will draw at it, and would expect they do the same. I would not come over the top with my AK on a bluff when I miss the flop. Straightforward play is friendly play in my book.
Just for the sake of clarification, here’s a hand that got a friend mad the other day:
He limped under the gun. A couple other called. I was in the $2 big blind with Q8 suited in hearts. We see the flop and it’s something like 10 8 7, one heart, so I have mid pair, not a great hand. It checks around. The turn is a 4th heart for me. I check and my friend bets $12, which is about the size of the pot. The other players fold. I have a pair and a flush draw and figure my friend probably has the ten, though he could be betting open ended or something since there are several players in the pot and we’ve all shown weakness. I call. The river makes my flush. Here I go ahead and bet moderate, $15, to let him know I have a big hand now. He immediately and angrily mucks his hand. He claims to have flopped the straight and that I’m not playing “friendly” with him, calling his bet on a flush draw.
Now, maybe other people who play friendly with their friends fold any draw or hand that isn’t made yet to a friend’s bet, but I think that’s expecting too much from “friendly” play. To call a small pot-sized bet with a pair and a flush draw is a move I’d expect most any friend to make against me. I’m not trying to break anybody, I’m just playing my hand, and not a lot was lost in the transaction.
I’m all for respecting friends at the table and not trying to make moves against them, but cards are cards.
From the story this is what I gleaned (in my opinion):
Your friend has no business being in the hand preflop. Limping in under the gun is a horrible move with a subpar hand. He should at least feign a big hand and raise putting pressure on every one else.
I don’t like this play at all.
He made a horrible play by not betting if he did flop a straight. There are enough players in the hand where a small bet would get a call and eliminate the others drawing empty.
He let you see 4th street for free. That’s his fault.
On 4th he made a moderate bet TRYING to get action. A bet to protect my straight against a flush draw should be expensive. I’m talking 2-3 times the pot.
He was greedy and it didn’t pan out for him.
I would rather bet the flop and take it there.
He should be more angry at his play and not yours.
As far as soft play, I change like the weather. I’ve been known to muck the nuts to allow a friend to take down a big pot against me and stay in the tourney with me and I’ve been known to take 90% of a guys chip stack by semi-bluffing with pocket 2’s against a K-Q-5 board.
Actually now that I think about it, the situations above where with the same friend in different tourneys.
I guess it evens out.
Stumbled upon this site and this post and i was appalled. Firstly the guy played it pretty bad but that doesnt seem to be your point. Secondly do you guys realise that at best your playing unethically and at worst your cheating? Does it not strike you as unfair that you would play a hand totally differently against a friend than you would against an identical player you didnt know? you guys are scamming other people out of money, your not playing poker. I’m pretty sure as well that a comment like your friends would have gotten both of you thrown out if you were playing at a casino rather than a home game and mucking the nuts is just low. I hope you guys realise just how despicable this kind of thing is..
i think you totally missed the point man. i would never muck a big hand against a friend, i just bet in a way to let him know i have it and do not bluff friends when playing against a group of strangers. that is not ‘cheating’ in any way. i am not broadcasting my cards. and a casino would not throw you out for not betting your hands, no matter who you are playing against, it’s up to you.
yeah the mucking of nuts was directed at jereme, funnily enough the rule that lets you demand to see any live players hand at showdown even if they try to muck it is there to stop things like this because it IS cheating.
what i’m mostly objecting to is your friend who actually attacks you for not playing “friendly”. It essentially amounts to collusion. I guess you can go a bit easy on a guy for whatever reason you choose but if he verbally announces that you have some obligation to do so its very clearly cheating.
Its like when your in the money or close to it and a couple of people call a short stacks all in with really bad hands to give you all more of a chance to bust him and then everyone checks down, its not exactly ethical to do so but your allowed to play the hand anyway you like. But if one of the guys in the pot says “hey why dont we just check this one down” your as good as being in cahoots
I hear ya argle, that makes more sense, but I do think that checking down in tournaments to bust someone is not cheating, it’s correct play.
Cash game cohoots, that might be different, in that specific situation.. two friends calling and then checking down to bust is wrong, you’re right