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	<title>Comments on: Hiring and firing, fast and slow</title>
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		<title>By: Glenn Mandelkern</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow/comment-page-1/#comment-309904</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Mandelkern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slackermanager.com/2007/03/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow.html#comment-309904</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;With regards to &quot;higher slow&quot;, we have to address something immediately -- the fear of making a hiring mistake.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hiring is something I speak to fellow managers and directors about repeatedly. It is way too easy in this age to moan that nobody is qualified, education is bad, that all the good people are already taken.  And so, the employment industry gets fixated on the &quot;passive candidate.&quot;  Hiring one can take forever, especially when many (active and passive) want to gain new skills, improve their marketability in new fields.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s interesting that in our world of ever shortening product cycles, we demand that managers and workers must produce results immediately.  If we&#039;re not fast, our competitors grab more market share.  Why then is hiring treated differently?  Isn&#039;t hiring fast a competitive advantage too, to hire capable people before your rivals?  Why don&#039;t more managers develop that skill?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In talking to today&#039;s managers, I&#039;ve noticed a common sentiment.  It isn&#039;t clearly stated in many cases, in fact it&#039;s rare the manager who sees himself as a bottleneck in the hiring process.  It takes some prying for a manager to finally lay out why hiring is taking so long.  Many are obsessed with &quot;proven track records&quot;, &quot;results&quot; and the like.  They look for &quot;experience&quot; when what they really need to look for is &quot;potential.&quot;   This is especially true in a world where yesterday&#039;s rules and markets constantly change.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The reality is not every manager studies what entails job competence.  (While a little more challenging in a knowledge economy, it&#039;s not impossible.)  The faulty reasoning is if you like succeeded somewhere else, then you&#039;ll likely succeed here too.  (Never mind that we&#039;re trying to do something that&#039;s never been done before, and we too are creating it as we go along.)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When you look at how a lot of hiring is done today, the focus is on &quot;what have you done.&quot;  That&#039;s wrong.  To hire someone, especially fast, you must ask &quot;what can you do.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When I&#039;ve cornered some managers why so much emphasis on &quot;what have you done,&quot; some frank reality comes out.  They want someone who&#039;s already done it, who&#039;s worked for the &quot;right&quot; companies, who&#039;s put out famous products, who has the credentials.  That way, if the new hire doesn&#039;t work out, they can go back to their boss and say &quot;at least they looked and sounded good on paper and interviews.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Unfortunately, employers don&#039;t track which hires were rejected who actually turned out good/great elsewhere.  If we did, you&#039;d see hiring accelerate.  Meanwhile, you can adopt the &quot;what you can do&quot; approach.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When I hire somebody, I can&#039;t spend time going over what they did for somebody else.  I want them to contribute to my firm and my bottom line in the present.  Reading resumes and conducting faulty behavioral interviews doesn&#039;t reveal what you can do for me under today&#039;s and tomorrow&#039;s conditions.  Giving you opportunities to express via &quot;oral and written communications&quot; of how you will do the job does.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Seeing what people can do today in a world where information about anything is readily available kills the &quot;want a job, get experience/want experience, get a job&quot; conundrum -- FAST!&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regards to &#8220;higher slow&#8221;, we have to address something immediately &#8212; the fear of making a hiring mistake.</p>
<p>Hiring is something I speak to fellow managers and directors about repeatedly. It is way too easy in this age to moan that nobody is qualified, education is bad, that all the good people are already taken.  And so, the employment industry gets fixated on the &#8220;passive candidate.&#8221;  Hiring one can take forever, especially when many (active and passive) want to gain new skills, improve their marketability in new fields.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting that in our world of ever shortening product cycles, we demand that managers and workers must produce results immediately.  If we&#8217;re not fast, our competitors grab more market share.  Why then is hiring treated differently?  Isn&#8217;t hiring fast a competitive advantage too, to hire capable people before your rivals?  Why don&#8217;t more managers develop that skill?</p>
<p>In talking to today&#8217;s managers, I&#8217;ve noticed a common sentiment.  It isn&#8217;t clearly stated in many cases, in fact it&#8217;s rare the manager who sees himself as a bottleneck in the hiring process.  It takes some prying for a manager to finally lay out why hiring is taking so long.  Many are obsessed with &#8220;proven track records&#8221;, &#8220;results&#8221; and the like.  They look for &#8220;experience&#8221; when what they really need to look for is &#8220;potential.&#8221;   This is especially true in a world where yesterday&#8217;s rules and markets constantly change.</p>
<p>The reality is not every manager studies what entails job competence.  (While a little more challenging in a knowledge economy, it&#8217;s not impossible.)  The faulty reasoning is if you like succeeded somewhere else, then you&#8217;ll likely succeed here too.  (Never mind that we&#8217;re trying to do something that&#8217;s never been done before, and we too are creating it as we go along.)</p>
<p>When you look at how a lot of hiring is done today, the focus is on &#8220;what have you done.&#8221;  That&#8217;s wrong.  To hire someone, especially fast, you must ask &#8220;what can you do.&#8221;</p>
<p>When I&#8217;ve cornered some managers why so much emphasis on &#8220;what have you done,&#8221; some frank reality comes out.  They want someone who&#8217;s already done it, who&#8217;s worked for the &#8220;right&#8221; companies, who&#8217;s put out famous products, who has the credentials.  That way, if the new hire doesn&#8217;t work out, they can go back to their boss and say &#8220;at least they looked and sounded good on paper and interviews.&#8221;</p>
<p>Unfortunately, employers don&#8217;t track which hires were rejected who actually turned out good/great elsewhere.  If we did, you&#8217;d see hiring accelerate.  Meanwhile, you can adopt the &#8220;what you can do&#8221; approach.</p>
<p>When I hire somebody, I can&#8217;t spend time going over what they did for somebody else.  I want them to contribute to my firm and my bottom line in the present.  Reading resumes and conducting faulty behavioral interviews doesn&#8217;t reveal what you can do for me under today&#8217;s and tomorrow&#8217;s conditions.  Giving you opportunities to express via &#8220;oral and written communications&#8221; of how you will do the job does.</p>
<p>Seeing what people can do today in a world where information about anything is readily available kills the &#8220;want a job, get experience/want experience, get a job&#8221; conundrum &#8212; FAST!</p>
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		<title>By: laurence haughton</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow/comment-page-1/#comment-309956</link>
		<dc:creator>laurence haughton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slackermanager.com/2007/03/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow.html#comment-309956</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m working with a company where turnover in one job category costs $70,000 per person.  They have hired and lost 11 of those people in the last 24 months.  And each of the hiring and leadership executives had an &quot;inherent understanding&quot; that they had done &quot;their jobs&quot; and the turnover was unavoidable.  They showed me the lengthly job descriptions, they recounted the hours spent interviewing, and told tales of super leadership efforts.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But the numbers ($770,000) said &quot;look deeper.&quot;  So we did.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m working with a company where turnover in one job category costs $70,000 per person.  They have hired and lost 11 of those people in the last 24 months.  And each of the hiring and leadership executives had an &#8220;inherent understanding&#8221; that they had done &#8220;their jobs&#8221; and the turnover was unavoidable.  They showed me the lengthly job descriptions, they recounted the hours spent interviewing, and told tales of super leadership efforts.</p>
<p>But the numbers ($770,000) said &#8220;look deeper.&#8221;  So we did.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel R. Sweet</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow/comment-page-1/#comment-309957</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel R. Sweet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 09:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slackermanager.com/2007/03/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow.html#comment-309957</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think in the &quot;fire fast&quot; school of thought (of which I&#039;m a fan, too) is the inherent understanding that we have done our jobs as managers and shown in a black-and-white, unconfusing way what exactly we expect from our workers.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve fired a number of folks in my time and not one of them was surprised.  Unhappy, maybe, but not surprised.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What is so hard about sitting down with an employee and saying, &quot;This, specifically, is what I expect from you and this is how I&#039;ll know whether you&#039;ve done it or not.&quot;?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Dan&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think in the &#8220;fire fast&#8221; school of thought (of which I&#8217;m a fan, too) is the inherent understanding that we have done our jobs as managers and shown in a black-and-white, unconfusing way what exactly we expect from our workers.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve fired a number of folks in my time and not one of them was surprised.  Unhappy, maybe, but not surprised.</p>
<p>What is so hard about sitting down with an employee and saying, &#8220;This, specifically, is what I expect from you and this is how I&#8217;ll know whether you&#8217;ve done it or not.&#8221;?</p>
<p>Dan</p>
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		<title>By: laurence haughton</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow/comment-page-1/#comment-309961</link>
		<dc:creator>laurence haughton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slackermanager.com/2007/03/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow.html#comment-309961</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m not surprised that (as you write) &quot;there’s no &#039;fire slow&#039; school of thought.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I am surprised that there is not &quot;get to the root cause&quot; school of thought.  And even more surprised that so many leadership writers don&#039;t write about the root causes and the fixes.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If a manufacturing company finds defective output they repair it or trash it.  And when they find it more than once they don&#039;t buy a bigger dumpster.  They find the root causes and they eliminate it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Firing is a signal there may be serious quality control issues in the hiring and/or the leading. Unless you ask why (and get to the root) you are sweeping the real problem under the rug.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not surprised that (as you write) &#8220;there’s no &#8216;fire slow&#8217; school of thought.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am surprised that there is not &#8220;get to the root cause&#8221; school of thought.  And even more surprised that so many leadership writers don&#8217;t write about the root causes and the fixes.</p>
<p>If a manufacturing company finds defective output they repair it or trash it.  And when they find it more than once they don&#8217;t buy a bigger dumpster.  They find the root causes and they eliminate it.</p>
<p>Firing is a signal there may be serious quality control issues in the hiring and/or the leading. Unless you ask why (and get to the root) you are sweeping the real problem under the rug.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow/comment-page-1/#comment-309968</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slackermanager.com/2007/03/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow.html#comment-309968</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No doubt about it Kris.  It&#039;s a case of being afraid of confrontation.  No one likes delivering bad news or having to correct the actions of another.  Yet, if you have an employee who is chomping at the bit to jump into management, their capability to handle coaching and mentoring should be judged first.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In many instances, when it comes to correction subordinates behavior or performance it&#039;s a simple matter.  &quot;It&#039;s not what you say, but how you say it.&quot;  Napolean Hill  was onto something for sure.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No doubt about it Kris.  It&#8217;s a case of being afraid of confrontation.  No one likes delivering bad news or having to correct the actions of another.  Yet, if you have an employee who is chomping at the bit to jump into management, their capability to handle coaching and mentoring should be judged first.</p>
<p>In many instances, when it comes to correction subordinates behavior or performance it&#8217;s a simple matter.  &#8220;It&#8217;s not what you say, but how you say it.&#8221;  Napolean Hill  was onto something for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow/comment-page-1/#comment-309969</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 13:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slackermanager.com/2007/03/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow.html#comment-309969</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Couple of other thoughts from the HR side of the house...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Comments about setting the right expectations for new employees are right on track.  My comments on the firing side are really only for the individuals that you have &quot;missed&quot; on in the hiring process...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;To some the points included, every manager needs to set objectives for all new employees, then do a &quot;check-in&quot; from a performance standpoint every couple of weeks initially, then probably once a month when they are in the groove.  With this type of coaching, many of the terms could be avoided, but coaching skills among managers from a performance management standpoint are weak - it&#039;s another form of confrontation, which most humans try to avoid.....&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The dialogue is good, the topic is complex....&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couple of other thoughts from the HR side of the house&#8230;</p>
<p>Comments about setting the right expectations for new employees are right on track.  My comments on the firing side are really only for the individuals that you have &#8220;missed&#8221; on in the hiring process&#8230;</p>
<p>To some the points included, every manager needs to set objectives for all new employees, then do a &#8220;check-in&#8221; from a performance standpoint every couple of weeks initially, then probably once a month when they are in the groove.  With this type of coaching, many of the terms could be avoided, but coaching skills among managers from a performance management standpoint are weak &#8211; it&#8217;s another form of confrontation, which most humans try to avoid&#8230;..</p>
<p>The dialogue is good, the topic is complex&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Des Walsh</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow/comment-page-1/#comment-309970</link>
		<dc:creator>Des Walsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slackermanager.com/2007/03/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow.html#comment-309970</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; could have phrased that better. My comment about the dinner party context was a clumsy attempt to describe how I feel when discussion comes up on this hiring/firing issue - that the subject is worthy of being more nuanced than usually (in my experience) occurs. I was not intending any slight on anyone here, including the esteemed author of the blog! It is an important discussion, especially as we enter, in the developed world at least, what recruiters are now calling the &quot;war for talent&quot;. From what I&#039;ve learned in recent times listening to top headhunters, it will be even more important to get the recruiting decisions right and also - my view - not to be too quick to fire, lest the person you thought was out there waiting to fill the position may not be there after all.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I <em>really</em> could have phrased that better. My comment about the dinner party context was a clumsy attempt to describe how I feel when discussion comes up on this hiring/firing issue &#8211; that the subject is worthy of being more nuanced than usually (in my experience) occurs. I was not intending any slight on anyone here, including the esteemed author of the blog! It is an important discussion, especially as we enter, in the developed world at least, what recruiters are now calling the &#8220;war for talent&#8221;. From what I&#8217;ve learned in recent times listening to top headhunters, it will be even more important to get the recruiting decisions right and also &#8211; my view &#8211; not to be too quick to fire, lest the person you thought was out there waiting to fill the position may not be there after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Des Walsh</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow/comment-page-1/#comment-309971</link>
		<dc:creator>Des Walsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slackermanager.com/2007/03/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow.html#comment-309971</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m reading this and feeling like being at one of those dinner party conversations where there are two alpha males debating an either or proposition. This conversation seems to take little or no account of the possibilities of someone improving. Where is the reference to young people who may need counselling and mentoring?  I relate absolutely to Kris&#039; comments about the negligence (often sheer gutlessness) of managers who won&#039;t put the effort in to counsel and help people, taking the &quot;easy&quot; route of setting them up for failure and their families for distress, as Greg points out so well. In my book, being a manager, getting more money and the car says you have an obligation to help and support, not just to show how tough you are.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m reading this and feeling like being at one of those dinner party conversations where there are two alpha males debating an either or proposition. This conversation seems to take little or no account of the possibilities of someone improving. Where is the reference to young people who may need counselling and mentoring?  I relate absolutely to Kris&#8217; comments about the negligence (often sheer gutlessness) of managers who won&#8217;t put the effort in to counsel and help people, taking the &#8220;easy&#8221; route of setting them up for failure and their families for distress, as Greg points out so well. In my book, being a manager, getting more money and the car says you have an obligation to help and support, not just to show how tough you are.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Kjerulf</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow/comment-page-1/#comment-309972</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Kjerulf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slackermanager.com/2007/03/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow.html#comment-309972</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Menlo Innovations (an IT company in Michigan) found a way to hire slowly - but do it quickly. They call it eXtreme Interviewing:
http://www.menloinnovations.com/freestuff/whitepapers/extremeinterviewing.htm&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Menlo Innovations (an IT company in Michigan) found a way to hire slowly &#8211; but do it quickly. They call it eXtreme Interviewing:<br />
<a href="http://www.menloinnovations.com/freestuff/whitepapers/extremeinterviewing.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.menloinnovations.com/freestuff/whitepapers/extremeinterviewing.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bren</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow/comment-page-1/#comment-309973</link>
		<dc:creator>Bren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slackermanager.com/2007/03/hiring-and-firing-fast-and-slow.html#comment-309973</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Mark...sometimes it feels that way, for sure.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;@Kris...great point about probationary periods. That&#039;s saved me a couple of times, for sure.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;@Greg....not sure I agree about employers wondering about company loyalty. At least not any employer large enough to have a dedicated HR person. People jump around in jobs these days. 30 years at the same org is a rarity. Good points about the human side of firing--it&#039;s never easy, and it&#039;s definitely not fun. With appropriate policies and communication, though, it shouldn&#039;t be a surprise either.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark&#8230;sometimes it feels that way, for sure.</p>
<p>@Kris&#8230;great point about probationary periods. That&#8217;s saved me a couple of times, for sure.</p>
<p>@Greg&#8230;.not sure I agree about employers wondering about company loyalty. At least not any employer large enough to have a dedicated HR person. People jump around in jobs these days. 30 years at the same org is a rarity. Good points about the human side of firing&#8211;it&#8217;s never easy, and it&#8217;s definitely not fun. With appropriate policies and communication, though, it shouldn&#8217;t be a surprise either.</p>
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