Is Curves for Women a Good Franchise Investment?
March 7, 2007 by Sean Kelly
Filed under Business
Do you own a Curves for Women franchise? Have you owned one, or know anyone who has? What are your thoughts on this franchise?
Curves For Women is one of the fastest growing franchise companies of the decade, having now topped 10,000 locations. I know in our area the concept seems to have passed the test of time. However, according to Franchise Pundit, 8% of the current Curves franchise locations are for sale.
What’s the inside scoop on the Curves for Women franchise opportunity?
SHARE YOUR INSIGHT. LEAVE A COMMENT.
Read this article written in 2002,
Curves’ founder Gary Heavin took over a failing fitness center in Houston, Texas in 1976, according to the Web site. He had six successful women’s centers five years later. Then, another five years later, he lost his chain of 17 fitness locations.
Learning from his mistakes, Heavin, along with his wife Diane, opened the original Curves facility in Harlingen, Texas, in 1992, according to the We site. The two began to franchise Curves in 1995.
NOW
Read this article written in 2002,
Curves’ founder Gary Heavin took over a failing fitness center in Houston, Texas in 1976, according to the Web site. He had six successful women’s centers five years later. Then, another five years later, he lost his chain of 17 fitness locations.
Learning from his mistakes, Heavin, along with his wife Diane, opened the original Curves facility in Harlingen, Texas, in 1992, according to the We site. The two began to franchise Curves in 1995.
NOW the same thing is happening over again expect now its thousands of losing clubs. Funny isn’t it since 2005
I understand that this conversation thread revolves around burend curves owners. I also understand that some of this attitude it passed along to some of the owners in regards to thier members. I really am in need of answers or opinions concerning the fat that my landlord, who is a curves owner, is attempting to hurt my business and run me out of my space through harassment! I have a major question. Q Are Curves franchise owners allowed to purchase and resale Weight Watchers materials to their members and to run programs and competitions based on WW principles in their clubs? Q Are they allowed to charge members $2 per week to enter these contests and hold meetings that are based on WW principles as opposed to the CURVES weight loss program? These are just a few of the issues that murky the waters around what should be a professional business situation concerning my sublease agreement. This person has continued to attempt to break St laws, as well as the sublease agreement. By the terms of the lease agreement she is breaking the sublease if she is breaking her franchise agreement as well!Could someone please give me some direction? I feel that the misrepresentatin that the corporation has dealt the individual owners has perhaps driven this particular owner into attempting unprofessional as well as illegal means to make money with little or no regard to whom they hurt in the process. Greed seems to works it way down from the corporate top!
Thank you for any information…..S
susan previously wrote:I sublease from a Curves owner for my skin care business. In the last year she has set up a tanning business in a room off of her workout area, begun to sell purses and boutique items, an automotive road side assistance program and has now broken out lease agreement by offering a skin care process… I figure she must really be hurting for funds if she has sunk so low as to break our lease agreement
Susan:
Let me offer my brutally honest opinion. You are two struggling business owners and no one cares about your tiny dispute but you two. Work it out directly with your landlord or move out.
You say you know she’s hurting but then you accuse her of greed. It seems to me that she is doing what she should do: trying anything and everything to make her business work. She’s dealing with her business challenges directly and addressing her problems. You are being a bit of a weasel, trying to squeal on her to corporate. Where will you be if they terminate her?
Either your rent payment is worth more to her than her skin care sales or not. If it is, she’ll work it out with you. Offer to pay a commission or bonus if she’ll promote your business and drop hers. You catch more flies with honey, and your threats mean nothing to a dying business owner. But if you’ve got a dispute with your owner, address it with her directly. Don’t go whining to third parties because, honestly, no one cares.
The FDD indicates that there were approximately 600 closings in 2007. That is out of 10,000 locaitons. Many were owned by absentee owners and in small populations. Curves will not sell a new franchise below 12k people. They had gone as low as 6k people. Women’s fitness and weightloss is not a fad, it is here to stay. Curves provides a very good service for a growing market demographic with a low cost business model. It may not work as well in high rent markets. Curves take work. People that got greedy and purchased multiple locations were foolish. It is a service business. You aren’t going to get rich, but it can create a nice living. It is not for the investor though. A service business needs an owner present, or at least working guest production.
I am not employed by Curves. I am an INDEPENDANT business broker. Many owners that aren’t successful do not work their businesses. (Not all but most) I sell Curves and help people buy them as well. I am not endorsed by Curves and don’t want to be. That would create a conflict of interest. Feel free to visit my website and check out the “Resources” section. It is very helpful.
Thanks Sean for your “Brutally Honest” comment The FACT is this Curves owner has BROKEN the state regulatory laws by offering these skin care services. At the very beginning, I discussed this with her on a very professional business level, as well as on a personal level, as a friend concerned that she could be creating a sticky situation for herself as well as for me. No THREATS at any time. She pretty much is the WEASEL in that she knew she was going to ENDANGER my LEGAL LICENSES by performing these services. HOW? If I am aware of the practice of an UNLICENSED INDIVIDUAL performing and practicing these services without a LICENSE then I am subject to civil penalties and revocation of my licenses! This supposed Professional business owner intentionally placed my business and me into legal danger. As for whining to THIRD parties, I was obviously mistaken in my belief that this chain of concerned conversation was actually being addressed by PROFESSIONALS with grains of WISDOM. You own personal bitterness obvious has colored your objectiveness. Perhaps this is why Curves Int is having a problem…treat the client like cash cows not people. When any corporation gets wrapped around the profit rather than the client the end is near. As to my “squealing” to the corporation, IF this franchise owner has done nothing ILLEGAL in regards to her gym and in regards to local and state laws, she has nothing to worry about does she? As for working it out, that was attempted on several occasions, SHE has been the one that began the THREATS to my business and has even attempted to physically lock out my clientele. With all of that being said, I do thank you for your VERY PROFESSIONAL REPLY and ADVICE as well as taking a small part of my inquiries and applying them in such a way as to make it seem as though this franchise owner is above reproach. There is a BIG difference between attempting to make a business thrive via honest business practices and intentionally attempting to break another business. As a very wise man said “It is difficult to conduct a totally honest business, but NOT Impossible” I have at ALL cost honored the sublease, respected her business, assisted her in her Curves client recruitment and even promoted her business to my clients (No commission asked or ever taken). And would have been happy to continue to do so if SHE had not acted as she has. Thankfully, by reading through these posts I realise that Curves Int has hurt more than a few owners here. I do hope they receive justice via the judicial system. Unfortunately, I have had the sad luck to be associated with one of the dishonest ones. Good luck Sean in your future endeavors may they provide you with much reward.
Susan:
I don’t own any personal bitterness. I’m not a Curves owner or former owner. I publish this blog and AM objective. I’m just giving you a little perspective.
You’re a business owner with a contractual dispute with your landlord. That’s all.
Move out. Move on. If she’s really done serious financial harm, sue for damages.
Or, if you prefer, you can dedicate more time trying to get her in trouble with the state, Curves International, the FBI, CIA, Interpol, God and the blogosphere. Just don’t be surprised when all they do is roll their eyes and mutter something about “tattletales” under their breath.
Tom Garmon:
How do you know that Curves will not sell a new franchise to a buyer in a community with less than 12,000 people?
Thank you.
Sean, Again I commend you on your top notch Professionalism. I must also commend you on your verabl command of the Dramatic. A mature person who refers to other adults as “talletales” certainly has achieved a level of the highest professional function possible. Again, I wish you well and much luck in youe future pursuits what ever they may be.
I must also commend you on your verabl command of the Dramatic. A mature person who refers to other adults as “talletales”…
Being the mature professional I am, I shall resist the temptation to chant sticks & stones… and allow Susan to get back to hawking her miracle age-reversing cream.
Her Curves landlord did add some interesting new revenue streams. Roadside assistance is a novel idea. I wonder if she tells her Curves members that tire changing is part of CurvesSmart conditioning? Free labor…
To Tom Garman,
You are not telling the truth! You most certainly did work for Curves at one time and they have sold plenty of clubs with less than 12,000 in population. Even your figures on the number of closing are wrong. You can go to hell for lieing as well as stealing and you sir have both strikes against you. Shame on you for selling curves franchises to unsuspecting individuals who know nothing about the hundreds upon hundreds of law suits being filed because of the dishonesty of howard gary heavin.
As the owner of a hydraulic fitness circuit company, I have watched with interest the rise and fall of Curves over the years.
To give credit where credit is due, Curves has gotten hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of women off the couch and into a club. They changed the face of the fitness industry by opening strip mall clubs in towns with populations too small to support a large coed club. Because of the strength of word of mouth advertising in small towns, the memberships grew to incredible numbers for the population base. The concept of circuit training works and most Curves members enjoy quick results- initially.
Unfortunately, because of the nature of Curves’ non-adjustable hydraulic cylinders, virtually 100% of Curves members eventually hit a “plateau”. They are told to push faster/harder, but let’s face it, a 50-60 year old woman can only push so fast. Maintaining at a plateau is fine for many people who are there for the social aspect of the program; however, for those people who have more weight to lose, it can be very frustrating- and boring. That is when members start dropping out and don’t renew their memberships. From what I have seen, the most successful Curves owners got in and out quickly; they opened their first club for under $30K, grew the membership to 400-500 in the first 6 months, then at month 12 sold it for $100-$200K and moved on to a new territory. What the new owners don’t know is it that about months 18-24, the bottom falls out of the membership base because of lack of renewals.
I cannot comment on the support or lack thereof from Curves corporate, but I can comment on the inherent failure of the Curves concept because of non-adjustable resistance equipment. The whole idea of progressive exercise is to be able to increase the load/intensity/duration in order to continue to enjoy results. The MyTrak system, although a nice feedback system, does nothing to increase the load. It does encourage members to maintain their intensity to stay “in the green zone”; however, again, one can only push so hard in 30 seconds and without being able to increase the resistance, members will still hit that frustrating, boring plateau. The MyTrak system may aid somewhat in member retention by providing feedback reports; however, I doubt that paying extra for bells and whistles that do nothing to change the resistance of the equipment is something that will prove successful in the long-term. Increasing the duration is always an option, but this defeats the whole purpose of a 30 minute workout.
Another problem I have seen Curves owners go through is not being able to offer additional profit centers like tanning, massage, facials, saunas, yoga, etc. or additional equipment like treadmills, elliptical machines, etc. to help members supplement their workouts. I do know of some Curves owners who have added some of these services or products in spite of the Curves franchise agreement telling me that they have never been visited by the corporate office anyway. It is a shame when a franchise owner feels they must violate their agreement in order to become successful.
To Unhappy,
First of all Sir or Madam, I have NEVER worked for Curves. NEVER! Secondly, all closings are reported in the UFOC or FDD as it is now called. I am looking at a copy of 657 locations closed in 2007. I am not sure where you are getting your facts, but you blanket claims are making you look foolish and uneducated.
With regard to the population of Curves franchses, yes they ahve sold populations in less than 12k people in the past, but from what I hear they are no longer doing this.
Finally all lawsuits are reported on the FDD. There are now hundreds upon hundreds of lawsuits. This is absurd. There are 3 major lawsuits that were files in January 2007. All buyers receive a copy of the FDD before purchasing.
It sounds like you have an agenda here to push propanganda even hate speach. I don’t appreciate being called a liar. I will not get in the gutter with you becasue you obviously have much more practice than I do.
Tom Garmon
As the owner of a hydraulic fitness circuit company, I have watched with interest the rise and fall of Curves over the years.
WOW , Finaly someone that knows exactly what they are talking about !! If only all the Curves, and other owner of Hydraulic franchises would have knowed !! Hydraulics are the lowest form of fitness equipment there is !! but if you want to sell thousands of franchise fast you must have a cheap price !! but starting something with cheap equipment will alway’s have the same results , (short term ) it is a miracle that those centers using Hydraulics lasted that long.
Congratulation for a well prepared text !!
And the mytrack addition what a waist of $$
Mytrack is a amazing addition to any GREAT equipment I tested it myself and the logistic behind it is fantastic but put it on a substandard machine and it becomes useless, sad sad for mytrack greed will have the best of them.
Mel
To Melissa;
Thank you for the nice comments; I guess I do know what I’m talking about- I may not be bright, but I do learn from experience. I can’t tell you how many times I heard a Curves or other women’s club franchise owner say “I wish I had known!”. It seems many were sold a get-rich-quick dream with no fitness experience necessary. They attended a 3 day workshop of how to high pressure people into memberships and then sent out to run their own clubs with little to zero follow up.
However, I must take exception to your comment on hydraulic equipment being “the lowest form of fitness equipment there is”. I agree that there are some poor quality hydraulic machines out there just as there are some sub-standard weight stack machines or any other type of fitness equipment. I have sold my hydraulic equipment to thousands of facilities such hospitals, physical therapy/rehab centers, schools, YMCA’s, Gold’s Gyms, World’s Gyms, professional sports teams, US Olympic training center, US Military, men’s clubs, etc. (as well as thousands of women’s clubs). No equipment could hold up under such diverse usage if it was poor quality. Hydraulic equipment is a tool, just like free weights or treadmills are tools. There are good tools and poor tools and not every tool can fit every purpose. Variety is one of the keys to success of any long-term fitness program. Hydraulic equipment can be a great cross conditioning program for even the fittest person, but it will not be the only tool they ever use. It has it’s place and it can address many needs, but only the franchise clubs will tell you that hydraulic equipment is the only tool you will ever need.
Thank God for web sites like these. It is always interesting to read opinions both for and against this type of business..
I too was about to make an emotionally charged decision to buy an existing curves location. The broker made it sound like a dream come true.. 100 000$ profits and you only have to go into the office 2 days a week!!!
As mama always said.. If it’s too good to be true it is only because it is!!! If it was such a great deal and such a good business why would the seller not pass it on to a family member or a friend…
Thank you Jose and Sean for the very use full information.
To those who are successful .. my hats go off to you.. May you continue to be profitable.
To those who have lost there shirts and endangered their family well being.. I hope that Karma will take its toll on those who felt it right to ruin your chance of having a decent life and who so viciously stole the future away from your children!!!!!
I do now believe after reading the pros and cons that even if there are successful Curves owners it does not justify what the parent company has allowed non successful owners to suffer..
Last but not least I have read that curves is a religious oriented company… Religion and business do not go hand in hand.. Religion is supposed to inspire people to give to the needy and help the poor.. Curves is the opposite Robin hood.. They steal from the poor to collect for themselves.. The overly wealthy!!!
To Zella,
Zella,
One should never make a business decision based on blogs like these. These sites are havens for compeditors to slam their counterparts. Case in point, I was contacted by the owner of a womens fitness franchise from Canada. He has subscribed to this thread and is watching it carefully. Is it possible that people like him are posting anonomously here slandering Curves. I guess anythings possible. My best advice is to consider the source. If you are considering purchasing any franchise you owe it to yourself to contact current franchise owners and ask them how they feel about the franchisor. Don’t listen to some anonomous poster here making claims and accusations. If you do so you are not bright enought to perform due diligence anyway. I would recommend going to the Curves.com website and plug in the sip code of the Curves location you are considering and find the nearby locations. Call them and tell them you are considering purchasing a franchise location and would like to speak to the owner. You might consider keeping the location secret; since you may have signed a confidentiality agreement and doing so might violate this. Additionally if might result in a less than objective opiinion from a neighboring location that could have some financial interest in the club not selling. Just an FYI.
Feel free to contact me as well. I will represent the buyer (for a fee) and protect you in the transaction and help you to get the best price. If I am paid a fee I will not share commissions with the sellers agent as my objective is to represent the buyer objectively.
If you are being told that you can kick back and count the dollars you are being misled. There are 2 key components to being successful at any fitness franchise. Service and guest production. If there is a staff in place and enrollments are at 70-80% then the owner can focus on guest production. If you are working in the club many hours a week, guest production will be more challenging.
Tom Garmon
Dear Tom ,
You say not to take things on this blog to seriously, but if so why should we listen to you ?
what exactly is your agenda on beeing here?
and still you say that you dont have any links to Curves but you always talk about them and how it is not that bad of a situation, well let me tell you something my best freind lost everything in
a curves and the 650+ closings are surely nor all related to bad management, maby if other franchisor are on this blog it is to learn something and not make the same mistakes, or maby you are right i dont know.
Mel
Melissa,
I am not telling anyone to listen to my words. I am telling them that if you are considering buying a franchise of ANY KIND that they should call at least 3 franchisees and ask them about their experience. This is called due diligence. Taking people’s comments here and making a business decision based on posts on a blog that has many biased interest is not wise.
I am a business broker that has been in the women’s fitness industry long before Curves ever existed. I personally believe in Curves and understand that with any business there is a huge commitment. Simply buying a franchise does not guaranty success. It increases the likelyhood of it. I am not here to flame other people, but to offer intelligent debate in a respectful manner.
There is a general rule in ecomonice. he who gets there first generally wins. Curves got there first. They dominate the women’s fitneess market. Are there better concepts out there? Probably. But do they ahve economies of scale and the corporate endorsements with General Mills, AARP, WAl-MArt, Sams Club, Avon, Blue Cross, P&G, Humana? No they do not. Curves as a franchise offers alot of benefits. Have they made mistakes, ABSOLUTELY. Have they learned from them? ABSOLUTLEY. They ahve sold to markets with too small populations, encouraged owners to split territories that should not have been split, they didn’t assist with lease negotiation with their new franchisees like they should have. They grew so fast that they our grew their corporate infrastructure back in 2003-2005. But they have adapted.
Look, I have owned several 8000+sq/ft all women’s health clubs. I know the challenges with large overheads and full service facilities. The fitness industry is changing. Smaller facilities with more locations are crushing the large health clubs by taking nibbles out of the market until the full service centers are in the red. This is a highly compeditive market, no doubt. Clubs that will survive will need to have health insurance subsidies and medicare supplemental partnerships. Curves has had this since early 2007 and it is growing. The brand recognition is unsurpassed in the fitness industry. I focus on resellign existing Curves becasue I truly believe in the franchise and business model. BUT, I also acknowledge that they ahve made mistakes in the past. Every franchise does. Subway and Quiznos both lhave lawsuits against them. Show me one top 10 franchise that doesn’t.
You ask me my agenda for being here. My reason is that I see all of these anonomous people slamming Curves, and I see there are people here whose mission is to mislead and slander without putting forth facts or even a civil debate with any level of respect or intelligence.
If anyone is considering buying a Curves I advise them not to listen to you or me. Call a Curves owner and speak to an owner. That is what I advise buyers to do. Get it straight from the horses mouth. Not a compeditor posing as a disgruntled franchsie owner psoting on an unmoderated blog.
Tom Garmon
It is obvious that you can’t trust Tommy boy and that he has a definate agenda to make mony off unsuspecting individuals wanting to buy a franchise. I love his statement that he will represent the buyer for a fee and protect there interrest. Ha what a joke. Watch out folks the world is full of snakes crawling all over the internet and I for one believe he is one. Go sell your snake oil somewhere else Tommy Boy.
Unhappy,
When people buy businesses they often hire a broker to represent them. Sometimes they hire a lawyer, an accountant, or a broker. Perhaps you didn’t utilize an expert to protect you and this is is why you are so unhappy.
Let me give you an example. I represented a buyer in the purchase of a club in FL. In the state of FL members sign up for a year and the ciontract automatically renews for up to 2 more years. After that they health club has to resign them under a new contract or remove them from the drafting system. The owner was not the best operator and didn’t maintain her membership records. AS a result she had 19 check drafts that were past the 3 year mark. If I had not been representing the buyer in this case she would ahve had an unpleasant surprise. We also negotiated a better purchase price.
I can afford to offer my services for free. Many brokers represent the buyer and split the commissions with the selling broker. This is a much more lucrative scenario; however it really is not the best scenario for the buyer. There is no real incintive for the buyers agent to get a much lower price. I charges that buyer $2000.00 to assist with due diligence, formulate the offer, and structure the closing. They were very happy with the end result and have referrred me other buyers.
I refuse to stoop to inmature name calling and childish verbage. It is not hard for people here to read and determine who is professional and has integrity. Like I said before, I will not get in the gutter with people like you. You have too much practice there and I will lose.
I provide professional services for a fee and I earn my fee. I am ethical, honest, and fair. I have an extensive education in business brokerage and business valuation. I have psoted my name and website. I don’t have to hide behind anonomous post.
I feel bad for you being so unhappy. Ones attitude sets the path for ones success and failures. It’s hard to be succesful when you are so unhappy. I have never met a successful business owner that is an unhappy person. The power of positive thinking can go along way in success in life.
Unhappy, which franchise location did you own?hink that for you to be taken seriously that you should disclose something about who you are? Why hide? My guess is that you will not respond with answers but more ranting and raving. As you can see I have put my name, my website link, which contains my contact information. I have nothing to hide.
Tom Garmon
I’m in favor of cutting Tom some slack. From what he says and from the look of his website, the people coming to him have already decided they want to buy a Curves. If he truly charges a $2K flat fee to represent the buyer (and is truly representing their interests with no double-dipping) I don’t see what’s wrong with that.
Compared to the “consultants” who pretend they’re providing you a free, objective service to find the best “match” when they’re really steering you to the highest, easiest commission to close, it’s downright saintly.
Plus, it can’t be easy running a business that’s slogan could be: “Keeping your bad decision from being worse” or “Preventing long, drawn out business failures from being long and drawn out.”
As far as this conversation being a bunch of competitor shills, it ain’t. This blog is largely uncensored and allows anonymous comments, but I correspond with enough of these people off-blog to assure you they are not a bunch of competitors making up untrue allegations… the occasional shill is pretty obvious pretty quickly.
However, if I were selling Curves franchises I’d urge my customers to stay off the blogs, too.
However, if I were selling Curves franchises I’d urge my customers to stay off the blogs, too.
GOOD point, I dont think that Tom is bad , he is only doing what soud’s fair to him. Any business man would do the same , and maby after all he is helping strugling Curves owner after all!!!
Sean all of us that know you respect your opinion so we will cut him some slack. but it cetainly seems very strange that a person who we all know had direct ties with McCord resales of curves opens up a new brokage to sell failing curves clubs to make a proffit. Most of the people who post on this site have had extremly bad experences with Curves International and Garry heavin for various reasons. And for him to spout that its the owners fault he is totally wrong. His posts are the same that we have all heard before comming from curves international. His dimisal of the hundreds of owners who have filed group action lawsuits supports are position and belief that he is a shill for gary heavin. by him claiming that we are cowards for not useing are names while he does gives us further thoughts on his real intentions. Futhermore its extremly hard for owners who have actually been part of the process, lived with, and seen the distruction that Cuves International has left in its wake to listen to his rant that we know is false. While some of his advise about buying a franchise is good, his advice about Curves is wrong and very misleading. Lets see if we can’t find some of his clints who have bought Curves and hear what they have to say. Not ones that he sends to us but actually owners who can be impartial not solicitated by him. than maybe I’ll owe him an appolgy but for now I still think he is a snake in the grass waiting to pounce. Enough said lets let the other actuall owners of Curves past and present tell us there view of Tommy boy.
I assume that not every Curves franchise is unsuccessful and not everyone associated with the sale of a Curves club is one of Satan’s helpers.
Tom is, after all, also helping franchisees sell their clubs. He also has left the McCord fold to become a competitor, I’d assume. And I’d imagine that he knows all the tricks and secrets – like whether the original owner really still carries liability if the new owner defaults, whether it’s true owners can’t sell their equipment, and whether they come after you if you close without paying your $10K failure fee.
Of course my BS detector goes into the red when he makes statements like he can afford to work for free, that he’s never met an successful business person who’s unhappy, or that a benefit of owning a Curves franchise is control of your own destiny (!).
Keep in mind, that’s rhetoric is required to maintain one’s broker’s license.
To his credit, he also gives some good advice:
“…if you are considering buying a franchise of ANY KIND that they should call at least 3 franchisees and ask them about their experience.”
I’d suggest a lot more than three, but it’s a start.
“Simply buying a franchise does not guarantee success.”
Not by a longshot.
“They have sold to markets with too small populations, encouraged owners to split territories that should not have been split, they didn’t assist with lease negotiation with their new franchisees like they should have. They grew so fast that they our grew their corporate infrastructure back in 2003-2005.”
Of course this is followed by the fact that they fixed all of that…
“If anyone is considering buying a Curves I advise them not to listen to you or me. Call a Curves owner and speak to an owner. That is what I advise buyers to do.”
Amen.
Sean,
Thanks for something intelligent to add to this thread. In response to me working for McCord Business Brokers, I did. I resigned there in March. I had a difference of opinion with John and started my own firm. I spent years as a consultant for health clubs and believed that I had more to offer on my own. Plus I was overworked, underpaid and under appreciated. The people there don’t get paid what they are worth. I have a couple people that work with me. One is a current franchisor and another just sold the last of her 6 locations. They both workout at Curves and love the franchise.
I keep a manageable level of listings so I can be effective. Additionally I am not endorsed by Curves and there is no potential conflict of interest for my clients. I could sell any businesses I choose. I choose to sell Curves. I am very sorry that some people here have had bad experiences with Curves. There are over 11,000 franchises in 61 countries and you can’t please everyone.
I would never sell something that I don’t believe in and for people to sit here attempting to impugn my integrity because of how I choose to make a living is uncalled for. Let me say this. I sell viable businesses. I do not sell distressed locations. I see Curves that are making 50k, 75k 100k + all the time. Just because a business is for sale doesn’t mean it is failing. This is an uneducated viewpoint. I also see clubs that aren’t making money and even losing money. I try to consult with these less fortunate owners and offer advice where it will help them. Like I said, I have been involved in women’s fitness since 1991. I have worked with women’s shelters, seen women come in my clubs with black eyes, no self esteem, etc. I can relate to many owners. I want to help them and I don’t want to take advantage of anyone in the process.
I have people that come to me whose records are a mess. They don’t even know what their revenue or payroll are. It’s no wonder some people are losing their shirts. Some people have no business being in business. Curves has made some mistakes. Some are outlined below. These are my opinions.
I say to anyone that is considering buying a Curves, call and speak to real owners in that area. Ask them what they think. My first sale was to a lady in the Miami area. She decided not to purchase a location because she was scared she would get support from Curves. 2 weeks later she called me back and bought the location. I asked her what changed her mind. She told me she called 3 Curves owners and talked to them and they sold her! Kim Miller is her name. Other people could have different experiences. I know that now they have resale support specialists that work with up to 9 resales over a 6 week period giving them daily support. They didn’t have this a year ago. Curves is striving to become better and better. Could they improve more ABSOLUTELY, but to hear people demonize them is not consistent with what I hear day in and day out from current owners. IF the comments here were consistent with what I was hearing I’d be selling other businesses.
Unhappy wrote
“His dismissal of the hundreds of owners who have filed group action lawsuits supports are position and belief that he is a shill for Gary heavin. by him claiming that we are cowards for not using are names while he does gives us further thoughts on his real intentions. ”
I do not know Gary Heavin. I speak for myself based on my experience. People like you are in the vast minority. I am not discounting you particular experience. I know you are hurt. That is obvious. I only wish you well. I hate that anyone had to experience what you did, but you are in the minority. It is obvious that you are seeking retribution in this blog and this gives you an avenue to vent. I respect that. I mean you no disrespect. Can’t you just agree that we have different experiences and opinions and not make personal attacks? Let’s behave like adults. The way you carry yourself makes me wonder whether or not you are in fact your own worst enemy.
With that being said, I’d like to comment on what the original thread was asking.
In reading the original post it mentioned that 8% of the franchises are for sale.
I’d like to comment on that. 1 in 5 businesses are for sale at any given time in America at any given time, and 1 in four of those sell in a given year. The average health club owner last on average 4.5 to 5.5 years as an owner. This is keeping up the with the US average of businesses for sale about 12% of Curves are on the market at any given time. It ranges from 8% to 15%. This is below the national average.
The other question originally posted is Curves a good investment. This all depends on several factors. If someone has money that they want to invest and not be active in the day to day of the business Curves (or any health club) is not a good investment. Go buy a convenience store or real estate. If you have a passion for fitness and want to be actively involved in the business and like PR and marketing then it is worth considering a fitness franchise.
Many people want to know why some Curves are failing. I have reviewed over 300 Curves franchises and I can tell you what the main reasons are.
(1) Multiple club owner or absentee owner dealing with employee turnover, resulting in improperly trained staff. Many original franchisees opened a location and say their 60k investment swell to over 600 members creating windfall profits. As a result they purchased re locations. This changes the dynamic of the business dramatically. They went from managing members to managing employees. Logistically they were miles apart. Compounding this issue is the nature of the fitness business itself. You see, the first 2 years in a health club’s operations are gravy. You focus on new members and your revenues climb. After the 18 to 24 month mark you start to see attrition beginning to exceed enrollments. As a result year three can be very challenging. If the owner has neglected promoting active membership over sales they are faced with a problem that is much harder to fix and takes longer to correct. Getting new members in the door is not as hard of a problem to correct as stopping members from canceling. Once a health clubs sees year 5 the distribution of the membership terms is more spread out and you don’t see some many months where you have heavy cancellations. As a result cash flow becomes more stable. Growth is easier to achieve in year 5 than year 3. So what many owners did was to get greedy and buy too many locations. I also feel that Curves was to blame n not managing growth better and limit the amount of locations that an owner could have. Curves obviously viewed it as part of the “get there first” strategy, beating competitors to the market. We could debate all day long what as ultimately better in the long run for the franchise as a whole.
(2) Too small of a territory population. This is another main reason why some clubs have failed. One contributing factor of this was some of the sales reps pushed franchisees to split territories in order to earn more commissions. When this happened a club that had 500 members split its membership to cover overhead in the new location. Hence, 150 members of pure profit (approx $50,000) went to cover overhead in a new location. This happened in FL quite a bit. Now Curves is merging together many territories where locations have closed, strengthening the remaining franchisees. This is the basis for the lawsuits in FL, CA, and NY. Additionally Curves used to sell populations with as little as 6k people. They no longer do this. From what I understand 12k people is the limit. Personally I think 20k people is a good viable territory size.
(3) Excessive rents is the third main reason many clubs have closed. This is a big problem is FL where leases didn’t have caps on triple nets. Club owners were being hit with excessive insurance bills from landlords. Also, many owners located in these Publix shopping centers where rents were $3300 + per month. Optimally rents need to be at 20 -25% of revenue. Many owners found themselves working for their landlords. In my opinion, Curves should have reviewed ever single lease like Snap Fitness does.
Can we blame the franchisor for some of these issues? Sure, we can point blame there. From what I am hearing many of these issues are resolved. They still do not get involved in leases though.
When a franchise grows as fast as Curves did (the fast growing franchise in World history) there are bound to be growing pains and issues. The problem is that at the rate of growth they were having, these issues aren’t manifested until 1-2 years later and by that time you have sold thousands of franchise locations.
Many people don’t know that Gary Heavin invented the hydraulic Circuit. He was the original patent holder and sold it to the Henley Corporation. They then formed the PACE (progressive aerobic circuit exercise) division and marketed it to re hab facilities. The health club I worked at in Oxford, MS while I was in school there had a PACE circuit. I remember the Ole Miss football team coming in and the coach had those guys vomiting in garbage cans. Hydraulics are excellent way to burn calories and get a basic resistance exercise. The problem is that you only get out what you put in and when people stop moving vigorously the resistance fades and the results are not there. Many members of Curves would attend and chat and not do the workout properly. Many Curves didn’t have trainers in the circuit to push the members to do the workout properly. Now Curves has Curves Smart, which is a very good solution to that problem. There is a video on you tube here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MbxITo6Tr0&feature=related
To Melissa and Unhappy
Please [click my name] for some testimonials of people I have sold for and sold to.
If you know Curves owners that want to sell please ask them to call me. I will help them in any way I can.
[Site policy on commercial links: http://www.franchisepick.com/about/site-policies-guidelines/
ARE YOU KIDDING ME I WOULDN’T RECOMENDED YOU TO MY WORST ENEMY NOR WOULD MOST PEOPLE ON THIS SITE. DIRECT YOUR COMMENTS ELSE WHERE.
Unhappy,
I feel so sorry for you. Your anger has consumed you and you are the only one suffering. Perhaps you can seek counseling or anger management to help you through this difficult time.
I don’t know your circumstances of what exactly happend to make you so hateful, but I truly hope you are able to recover and find happiness once again. Life is too short to be so full of hate. Sometimes you have to let the hate go or it will eat you alive, affect your health, and soon no one will want to be around you and you will find yourself isolated in your own anger.
Very Best Regards,
Tom Garmon
Olivia Newton-John Partners with Curves to Distribute the Liv(R) Breast Self-Exam Aid to 1 Million Women
A Breast Cancer Awareness Initiative to Empower and Encourage Women to Self Exam in October 2008
Four-time Grammy winner Olivia Newton-John announces today a partnership with Curves, the world’s largest fitness franchise for women to launch an international campaign to distribute 1 million units of the Liv(R) Aid, a breast self-exam aid that assists women to exercise breast self-exams correctly. The initiative’s goal is to empower and encourage women to take control of their bodies and breast health by launching a “first-of-its-kind” campaign beginning in October 2008, as part of “Breast Cancer Awareness Month,” available exclusively through Curves.
Newton-John credits her own breast self-exam as the first step to her eventual diagnosis of breast cancer. Now, 16 years later she has become a passionate advocate in creating awareness for early detection and encouraging women to take a more active role in their breast health. “That I am fine today and stronger than before, I credit to early detection,” says Newton-John.
Breast self-examination is an important step a woman can do herself as part of a regular breast health routine. “Clearly, a significant number of breast cancers are found by the patient herself, even in the setting of a normal mammogram,” says renowned breast cancer surgeon, Ernie Bodai, M.D., F.A.C.S. “The Liv Aid greatly enhances a woman’s ability in detecting an abnormality…which in many cases will lead to early detection and a better chance for a cure.”
“Being a breast cancer ‘thriver,’ I know that early detection is key to good breast health,” says Newton-John, whose cancer was diagnosed in 1992 and who is now cancer-free. “My wish is that all women age 20 and above perform monthly breast self-examinations. With the wonderful support of Curves, an organization whose mission statement is ’strengthening women,’ I hope that this campaign will be the beginning to have the Liv Aid available to every woman in the U.S. and it will become a staple in every medicine cabinet in the next five years.”
Following a partnership with Olivia Newton-John’s Great Walk To Beijing, a 142-mile journey along the Great Wall of China in April 2008 which raised more than $2 million for the Olivia Newton-John Cancer Centre Appeal, Curves is passionate about making the Liv Aid available to all women. Considering that numerous studies show a lower percentage of cancer diagnosis in women who maintain a healthy body weight and practice regular fitness programs, Curves is the ideal partner to successfully get the Liv Aid into the hands of 1 million women in October.
Curves founder Diane Heavin joined Newton-John for the entire three-week journey on the Great Wall of China, and Curves alone raised more than $1 million for the cause. They will continue their efforts in the fight against cancer (the company’s #1 cause marketing effort) with the support of the Liv Aid.
“No other cause has united the Curves community like the fight against cancer — and specifically, breast cancer,” said Diane Heavin. “When I heard that Olivia was behind this amazing early detection tool, I couldn’t wait to get my hands on one. After I used it myself, I couldn’t wait to get the Liv Aid into the hands of a million women.”
Beginning in October 2008, every woman will have an opportunity to get a free Liv Aid at their local participating Curves. Non-members can get one when they experience the new CurvesSmart personal coaching system. Current members can get one when they show proof of a mammogram within the last 12 months. Women should check with their local Curves for other ways to get free or discounted Liv Aids. National advertising for the campaign begins in late September. The goal is to distribute 1 million Liv Aids to women through October.
To coincide with the Liv Aid campaign in October, the Liv.com website will be launched as a one-stop source for information, news and education about breast health and early detection. Newton-John and Curves want to inspire women to actively integrate breast health into their daily lives and make it a part of their monthly routine. It is time to LIV.
About the Liv Aid
For more information visit http://www.Liv.com.
Baylor loses Curves research program, relocates to A&M
Sept. 5, 2008
By Ashley Corinne Killough
Staff Writer
Curves, Inc. terminated funding for its high-profile research program at Baylor on Sept. 1, while transitioning to Texas A&M University in August under the leadership of Dr. Richard Kreider, the program’s principle investigator.
Kreider served two consecutive three-year terms as chair of the department of health, human performance and recreation in the School of Education, where he led the Baylor Exercise and Sport Nutrition Laboratory.
He announced late last spring that he had accepted the position as the chair of the department of health and kinesiology at Texas A&M University , where he would be continuing research funded by Curves.
Kreider cited administrative changes within the School of Education as one of his reasons for moving.
“I wanted to continue developing top-level programs and didn’t think Baylor was going to get there with that leadership,” Kreider said in a phone interview.
Kreider said he was also attracted to the opportunities that Texas A&M University offered.
“There’s more resources, potential and better collaboration here at A&M,” Kreider said. “I came to Baylor to help develop a world-class research program, which we did. We made many accomplishments, and we were able to get a lot of funding. We did everything we were asked to do and are proud of that.”
Dr. Jon Engelhardt, dean of the School of Education, said he understood that Kreider’s disagreement was within the HHPR department and not with the school’s administration.
“There’s a lot of side issues, but the bottom line is that Dr. Kreider decided to leave Baylor and went to another university,” Engelhardt said. “We certainly wanted for him to stay here.”
Engelhardt said that from his understanding, Kreider left on good terms with the administration.
“We were not happy to see it end, but we understood that it was his choice to leave,” Engelhardt said.
In 2004, Curves awarded Kreider and his staff in the ESNL a $6 million grant to conduct diet and exercise research related to Curves fitness programs.
The funding provided for a number of health studies, including tests on the impact of high-protein and high-carbohydrate diets, calcium supplementation in post-menopausal women and the effects of crash dieting on metabolism for women.
Curves also worked with the engineering and computer science departments on the design and mechanics of its hydraulic fitness machines.
While Baylor will maintain the ESNL, the Curves research and funding will follow Kreider to Texas A&M University, where he will recreate his own lab.
The first phase of the move was completed in August when Kreider and his team restarted some of the clinical trials. The second phase will finish in December, after ongoing clinical trials at Baylor’s ESNL are completed.
“We’re still finishing up a little bit of Curves research at Baylor,” Kreider said. “But we’ve done studies before that have multi-sites, and we’ll keep in touch with personnel through videoconferencing.”
Kreider said the remaining research at Baylor also includes the completion of a $420,000 grant by General Mills to test the impact of Curves brand cereals on weight loss.
Dr. Rafer Lutz , assistant professor of health, human performance and recreation, will fill Kreider’s position as interim chair of the department.
“Dr. Kreider is a very prolific researcher,” Lutz said. “We will miss him and his research very much. He was a strong advocate for his department.”
Tommy boy–Blah blah blah blah. Next!!!!
Here is one Unhappy will like. I am sure she is sorry someone wasn’t hurt.
SAN ANTONIO — A group of women exercising on midday Friday got their adrenaline pumping as a car crashed into the fitness center in which they were working out.
Witnesses said a woman in her 70s appeared to lose control of her vehicle and crashed into the Curves fitness center in a shopping center located on Walzem Road about 11 a.m. Nobody was injured in the crash, but it did scare some of those exercising.
“She said when she pulled in, she felt like she lost control and it kept going,” Curves manager Laura Donohue said. “So you know, possibly a gas pedal got stuck, brakes quit working, maybe she thought she hit the brake and she hit the gas; I really couldn’t say.”
The driver told police and the store manager that she was not sure how the crash happened.
Thanks Tom for all of your comments. You make your self very transparent in your comments on this blog. As Sean has mentioned you have some good and some bad advice. This tells me you are a good salesman, on the fence not to offend anyone. As for me, i say it like it is and have so since I began on this blog in 2007. Reading all comments before making a judgement. I consider this blog a Wealth of experience for those looking to buy any fitness franchise. It gets you aware of what to look for rather than walk into it ignorantly. Thank You
ZELLA for considering Sean and my comments to be very to the point and fair. As I pointed out long time ago I am an experienced business Franchisor who no longer franchises because of the corrupt nature of salesman and franchises like Curves who deceive people but making everything seem easy. If it were easy everyone would do it. That is why Curves sold so quickly and that is why it is failing now. Not everyone has the fortitude, money to expertise to run a business. To expect the franchisor to hold your hand and MAKE you successful is exactly why peopl and conviced to buy a franchise rather than open there own company. I have found it more profitable to own several clubs of my own and operate them rather than franchise to those who pay very little in royalties and then complain like babies when the money does not come rolling into there hands. Money does not come to you. YOU MUST GO OUT AND GET THE MONEY. WORK WORK AND MORE WORK. SAVE SAVE AND SAVE. This is how to build wealth. If you have done thins and failed then hats off to you, you have done your best. But do not continue operating a franchise if your hands are tied by the franchisor. Explain document and then vacate if you must to save your savings. Most franchisors want you to be successful but when franchises grow to quickly it is impossible to keep up with demand therefor the frachisor then coasts and figures everything must be great, I am selling franchises. Lots of money can drive a frachisor to forget why he started the business and focus on his own needs. He turns his company over to firms that run it into the ground at the franchisees. expense. What the heck the franchisor is rich and figures his kids will be taken care of for the rest of there life. I am sure Gary havin is not worried about paying his multimilliom dollar morgage or Jet payment. He is rolling in more money than he will ever be able to use. He has become God is his own site and the franchisees and just winers. It is a sad day when people refuse to listen and continue to promote companies that do this, but they do. This blog should enlighten each person to look out for your family and yourself , remember No one cares but you, your kids, spouse and family.
one time I met a women who owned Curves. She was proud smug and not very humble when she was doing well. She duplicated Gary Havins attitude in her personality, now she is eating humble pie and i am and lost several franchises, i was humble and I am doing great and have open another Club. Do not let pride stop you from being yourself. Thank and greet everyone when you are doing well and when you fail. either way you can be happy in the end.
God Bless
Tommy boy- why would u assume unhappy would be sorry if someone wasn’t hurt in that accident. I think unhappy is on this blog trying to keep people from being hurt (financially and emotionally) by Curves unethical practices, unlike u trying to SELL yourself some business!!! Another thing- u are way too long-winded and u are making me sick.
Tom:
If you read this post and the comments on Unhappy Franchisee, you might have a better idea of where these franchisees are coming from:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/2008/08/curves-robert-lays-story/
In addition to Robert Lay’s story, another long-time franchisee posted a pretty compelling story. There are literally hundreds of franchisees who have sued, are in the process of suing or are looking in to suing Curves International.
I don’t see how you would make the claim unhappy would be interested in seeing people get hurt.
To the contrary, the unhappy franchisees are trying to keep others from getting hurt.
Jose,
One thing I try to live by is respect others and try to be diplomatic in the process.
As you ay you like to say it like it is, but one can get a point across without attacking other people. I have read this entire thread and there are many times where you say things that just are not accurate. In reading these posts, it is hard not to question whether you truly believe what you are writing or you are merely pumping inaccuracies to attempt to drive you point / agenda home.
I see where you have never owned a Curves franchise. You did some research and chose not to buy one. Then you say you are an experienced franchisor who failed because of crooked salespeople under your leadership. Yet, the way to present yourself, it is as you are the be all know all of Curves. Might I ask what the name of your Franchise was? I am very interested in hearing more of your experience with these corrupt salesmen. I don’t know you and certainly am not trying to pass judgment, but it does sound like you are putting your failures off on “corrupt salespersons”. Who hired these salespersons? Who trained them? Who supervised them? Leadership begins at the top. Things just don’t add up here. For anyone to take you seriously and value your opinion as an “expert” I would think they would like to know a little more about you, your failed franchise, why it failed (specifically) what you are doing now.
You Wrote:
As Sean has mentioned you have some good and some bad advice.
I would like to know what bad advice I am giving. I am open to enlightenment. Other than being Satan for selling Curves is there anything else?
You Wrote:
I have found it more profitable to own several clubs of my own and operate them rather than franchise to those who pay very little in royalties and then complain like babies when the money does not come rolling into there hands. Money does not come to you. YOU MUST GO OUT AND GET THE MONEY. WORK WORK AND MORE WORK. SAVE SAVE AND SAVE
It sounds to me that you might be describing a few people here complaining about Curves. People talk about how Curves did nothing for them. What years did they own their franchises? Was this in 2002, 2003, 2004? Is it still relevant today?
What about now and national advertising and the tens of major corporate partnerships, wellcare participants. Curves goes to insurance conventions, medical conventions, sends millions of dollars on fitness studies to promote the success of their workout, is partnered with the AARP, Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, P&G, General Mills, this list goes on and on.
There are people that buy franchises and expect the ZOR to make them money. It doesn’t work like that. People are misguided that believe this. ZOR should give you tools, economies of scale, brand recognition, and training. Just because you buy a Curves doesn’t mean members will be lining up to join. People who buy a franchise should talk to other franchisees.
People here say Curves did nothing for them at the time they owned them. Did they do DUE DILIGENCE and get feedback from other ZEES? If they didn’t is that the ZOR’s fault? If I were to buy a franchise I’d be doing my homework. I would rely on a franchise salesperson to look out for my best interest. I’d be doing that. Sometimes people just can’t take any responsibility for their mistakes. That includes the ZOR as well. Would I sell some jerk a franchise in a service business if I was a ZOR? Heck no. I see many franchisors in their quest to obtain market dominance turn the other cheek to capture market share. Is it any surprise when they fail? There can be 20 different reasons a business fails, there is blame that can go around for all parties.
Tom has 7 years experience in owning multiple women’s fitness centers from 1993-2000, selling both for profit. He has over 11 years in the fitness industry and has consulted with numerous health club owners since 1993, assisting them in everything from opening clubs and training sales staff to getting their clubs ready to sell. In 2000 he invested in a manufacturing company, serving as managing partner, building overseas supply lines, reducing cost, and increasing profits. In late 2006 he began working with a national business brokerage firm and became the top producing broker, before resigning in 2008. He is an active member of the International Business Brokers Association.
Tom started, managed and eventually sold each of his businesses, lending tremendous insight to his role as a business broker. Understanding the buying and selling process not only as a broker, but also from the client’s perspective, provides tremendous insight in the buying and selling process. Tom has sold close to 30 Curves locations in 11 states, giving Tom a unique advantage over other brokers with regard to selling Curves Franchises.
A native of Mississippi, Tom graduated from the University of Mississippi, with a Bachelor’s Degree in Business Administration, 3 years of which were in the Patterson School of Accountancy. He served as an Ambassador for the University of Mississippi from 1991-1993. He is currently completing a Bachelor’s Degree in Finance with an emphasis in Real Estate from the University of Southern Mississippi and holds a real estate license and has over 200 hours in appraisal, related real estate, and related investment finance courses. Tom is proficient in database technologies and has consulted with not only health clubs, but manufacturing companies looking to streamline their information technologies. He has recently designed, managed, and completed a cutting edge database application for a national brokerage firm managing tens of millions of dollars in listings.
Also the above statement shows that you tried and failed at franchising. Heck, I have failed at previous business attempts too. Failures make us stronger and wiser. You obviously have the true spirit of an entrepreneur.
You wrote:
I am sure Gary havin is not worried about paying his multimilliom dollar morgage or Jet payment.
Curves is a debt free organization. He owns his jets outright.
You Wrote:
I am doing great and have open another Club
What is the name of your club(s)?
Jose, there is much more to you that you are not telling about yourself. This is obvious to anyone here reading this thread. Anyone reading this should know by now that this blog
has an agenda and one agenda only, smear Curves. I have contacted several buyers of Curves who are very happy and asked them to post on the Robert Lay thread and none of their post have been made viewable to the general public. What does that say? AGENDA
Additionally, I am the ONLY person on this thread that has disclosed their true identity. What does this say to readers here? Everybody here has a professional opinion, but the only one here the readers can see their credentials is me.
What is your educational background? Do you have a bachelor’s degree? Masters degree? The reason that I ask this is that for you to call Curves a failing franchise is, in my opinion a myopic observation. Corporations go through life cycles. They have their ups and downs. Look at McDonald’s recently. U.S. Sales were down and they turned that around. If the organization can’t adapt to a changing market they are in fact doomed. Judging that Curves is failing because 7% of the North American franchsies closed is not indicative of a failing concept. Is Starbucks going to fail? They are closing 600 locations. They overgrew at a time that we are hit with a down economy. They will redefine and bounce back. Only difference they are corporate owned and not franchised. Now might be a good time to look into buying their stock, BTW.
When I look at Curves from an analytical standpoint I see a company that is growing globally, strengthening their brand through joint ventures and corporate cross promotion, restructuring at the corporate resale level to give better support to resales and currently not selling any new franchise locations, merging territories together, and incorporating
innovative technologies (Curves Smart)
Yes it was developed by MyTrak, but Curves purchased exclusive rights to the technology for their franchisees. I believe that cost $5,000,000 if I am not mistaken.
The brand has more recognition than it did 2 years ago. Of course there were mistakes along the way. How could there not be?
Jose said that franchisees were misled into think that Curves was an easy franchise to operate. Curves is an easy concept that requires hard work. I do believe that many people that bought Curves were not aware of the amount of marketing it takes for successful guest production. I have to agree to a degree with Jose on this point. There should use a personality profile that every Curves buyer takes before being approved. These types of businesses take a certain personality type to be successful. Not everyone is cut out for this type of business. I DO NOT mean that in any derogatory way. The difference between a good doctor and a great doctor is the bedside manner. This is the best analogy I can think of.
I listed a Curves in north FL. It was breaking even. Barely. Rent was reasonable and I felt it was sellable. I had 5 calls in the first week and it sold in 12 days. Every person that I spoke to that was a member all said the same thing. They couldn’t stand the owner. They said her attitude was terrible, that she always talked about her problems, and that they didn’t come in there to hear about her issues. When the new owner took over I called her a month later to see how things were going. She said that close to 20 members came back who were attending another Curves 8 miles away. They had all left because of the current owner.
This business can be tough for many people. You are celebrating on Monday because you enrolled 6 people and on Thursday you lose 5 members or even 7! It can be hard for some people to continue to stay positive in this environment. I did it for 10 years. I loved helping people. I get as excited when a member would lose weight and come in with a new lease on life. Part of what it takes to be successful is a PASSION for fitness and helping people achieve their goals. I want to stress that this will not lead to success alone. I don’t want my words being taken out of context. You can’t teach this stuff. Either you have it or you don’t. If you don’t have this the nature of attrition will wear you down. Fitness centers need to be owner operators or involved owners that are leaders, very positive people that can take rejection and move on to the next day. I am not trying to say that people here lacked those qualities, but usually people with those qualities don’t dwell in such a negative state of mind.
Jose said it best
I have found it more profitable to own several clubs of my own and operate them rather than franchise to those who pay very little in royalties and then complain like babies when the money does not come rolling into there hands. Money does not come to you. YOU MUST GO OUT AND GET THE MONEY. WORK WORK AND MORE WORK. SAVE SAVE AND SAVE
Jose, that is the smartest and most accurate thing I have read you type yet. I agree 100%.
Susie Q doesn’t like my long winded post, well don’t read them. The words might be too big for you anyway. I am here to stay. This forum needs some balance and truth from another perspective, and I plan to offer it. You bitter people can call me Tommy Bow or whatever you like. I get a good laugh out of the immaturity. At times reading some of the post here I feel like I am back in grade school. I am sure many readers do as well. It just hurts your credibility when you cannot communicate intelligently. People might draw conclusions of why your locations failed if the most intelligent thing you can come up with is “Tommy Boy” and “blah, blah, blah, next”.
There is no substance to many of the post. It boils down to “I hate Curves and you should too.” “My business failed and it’s all Curves Fault” “My franchise failed because of the crooked salespersons I hired, trained, and supervised”, “Salespeople are the Devil.”
Give me a break. Don’t you people realize that intelligent people can see through this garbage?
Okay, let’s see who comes up with an intelligent, well worded response with some facts.
Tommy Boy
Blah, blah, blah…NEXT
Sean,
I read the post about Mr. Lay. I also sent out emails to previous buyers I know and ZEES. One emailed me last night to say she posted about her success story. It never made it on the blog. How do you explain this?
Tommy boy you just don’t get it. You sound just like Howard heaven and you are wasting your time. No futher responces will be made concerning your idiotic posts as you don’t tell the truth you just mouth off with lies after lies. You have never owned a curves franchise you just rip people off by selling them. You really are nothing but a snake saleman who doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground. The group lawsuits against curves are growing every day with over 200+ already filed. Twice that are in the pipe line and will be filed shortly. I’m sure your upset as it will ruin your brokage business but that won’t be anything new to you as you have failed many times before. For you to even question Sean about cencering posts tells us more about you than you have the capipilities of understanding. You are the one that sounds like you needs a psychological evaluation as you can’t stand the truth about what is happening to Curves. What happened tommy boy you lose a sale because of this site? Your going to lose a lot more once we make 60 minutes. To all the other Curves owners who post on this site con’t let tommy boy get to you. You all have been there and know what the truth is about curves. The best way to handle this is to just ignore his posts and let him act like a fart and blow in the wind.
Unhappy,
Spoken like a true class act. at you don’t get is that I can sell any businesses I like. I can sell coffee shops, gas stations, etc. A business broker has the freedom to sell whatever business he wants to. So, don’t worry about me I’ll be fine. Please be specific to the lies. List them. Problem is you can’t. You have nothing intelligent to offer.
Tommy Boy
Tom Garman wrote: One emailed me last night to say she posted about her success story. It never made it on the blog. How do you explain this?
Tom: Have her check her inbox and Spam folder for a confirmation email that she may have neglected to respond to. She may not have confirmed her registration. It doesn’t have to be a real name, but must be a valid email address (not publicly visible).
If she has any further problems she can email it to me at unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com and I’ll see that its posted.
As I explained to you, I don’t delete or censor posts unless they contain physical threats, personal contact info or are ads/spam.
Sean
Folks:
Argumentum ad hominem where you attack the arguer rather than the argument he/she is making, is the surest way to kill a productive discussion. It’s also a way for people with agendas and weak arguments to sabotage important information exchanges by turning them into insultfests. Let’s not let it happen here.
Obviously, a conversation that includes both unhappy franchisees who feel swindled and a man who sells that franchise for a living is potentially volatile. The truth is that there are successful Curves franchisees and there are unsuccessful franchisees who were sold a bill of goods and treated in a way contrary to the Curves marketing pitch. Let’s discuss and debate specifics rather than waste all of our time with meaningless personal attacks against anonymous foes.
WHY BOTHER? Google “Curves franchise” This thread comes up 5th at present. That means a lot of people are looking to each of your experiences to help them guide the biggest financial decision they’ve ever made.
Hello Tom Garmon,
I have been watching with interest your comments on this blog and I am trying to get accurate information. I am a current franchise owner who wants to sell. My Curves franchise is in a community of just under 7000 people.
My question is this – From your experience as a broker selling Curves franchises, do you think that Curves would even approve a resale for me since my population is under 7000 people? You said in an earlier message that you believe that Curves International is no longer selling franchises in communities with under 12,000 people. I still have 21 months left on my 5 year agreement and my business is losing money every month now.
I now believe that from what I have learned from my personal experience, and which seems to be substantiated on this blog, that Curves International should not have allowed the first owner to open the Curves in this town back in 2003 in the first place with such a small population. While there is a definite niche for my Curves business, there just are not enough women in the town to sustain my business.
Could you answer my question please.
Thank you, Tom.
To Robert Lay, Sean – or Anyone Else Who Might Know the Answer
Is it possible to sell your Curves franchise and also participate in the group lawsuit – OR – does a club have to be closed in order to sue Curves International?
Thank you.
Positive-Healthy,
If you participate in a lawsuit and want to sell your club, you will need to dislcose to the buyer that you are involved in a lawsuit. If you sell your club from what I have been reading you are not eligable for the lawsuit.
There are some clubs in 6000k populations that have as many as 180 members. Some as low as 80. Generally it falls between 2 and 6 percent of the female population base as a general rule (not taking age into account) The more rural the area, generally the higher the membership as a percent of population.
Very rarely am I able to sell Curves in low populations. I am listing a location in CA that has 180 members and has a stable membership for 4 years with rent at $600.00 per month. The owner lives 45 minutes away. This club is marketable in my opinion.
I would be happy to talk with you just give me a call. Click on my name to contact me. If you are losing money and with such a low population I do not think I could list it at present simply becasue I don’t think I could be effective.
I forgot to mention in the above post that the population is around 6000 in the CA location, much like yours.
Tom, Thank you for your response to my email. I am still wondering though if, from your knowledge and experience with selling Curves clubs, Curves International would now approve a resale in communities with such low populations. If not, do they just make a paltry offer to the current owner and then close the club?
Thank you again for any insight you can give.
Positive- healthy,
I am sorry to hear about your problems with Curves and I certainly understand your dilemma. You are right, Curves should not have sold that territory in the first place and it is unfortunate that you got evolved with it. But with that said it should also be noted that of course Curves will transfer your franchise to any buyer and if you do happen to close they will put your area up for sale with in six months. Contrary to what others have stated on this blog Curves has done this in the past, is doing it now and most certainly will continue to do it in the future. I have personally talked to many owners who have been sold franchise territories with less than 3000 in population that had no chance to succeed from the start.
You do not have to close your club to become a litigant in the group action lawsuit. Many of our litigants including myself continue to operate our clubs and are hopping that the lawsuit will effectively change Curves International policies and management personnel. While you can still join the group lawsuit if you sell you club you do need to contact the lawyers involved before you go to closing as Curves International is trying to force owners who sell to sign a waver releasing them from any financial responsibility. The lawyers can explain to you all the legal steps you have to go through in order to get this accomplished. I can assure you Curves International will at first refuse to transfer your franchise agreement to the new buyers without you signing that release causing most buyers to become hesitant in completing the sale. This has happened in several cases that I am aware of but the upside is that it will amount to more monetary damages you will be entitled to upon the settlement of the case.
Taking into consideration that your club is losing money each month and the size of your territory you may have a very hard time selling your club. If you feel that you want to list your club with an ethical brokerage firm please send an e-mail to http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com in care of Sean Kelly and he will forward it to me and I will put you in touch with one. If you are considering the group lawsuit but need more information before making your decision you can also contact me through Sean Kelly and I will forward all the info asap. Robert Lay
Mr. Lay,
In 2007 Curves opened 7 new outlets. That is on the FDD. Given that they closed many more than that, it is hardly resellign them in 6 months. I have worked with several franchisees to have their territories enlarged by absorbing neighboring territories that have had locations close.
In my opinion any brokerage firm that knowingly list a location in a population that is unsustainable is unethical. This is why I am unable to list this location. There are plenty of brokers that would list this location with a 10k minimum, pump it to an unsuspecting buyer, and sell it for enough to make their commission. I am not one of them. Ethically I couldn’t list it. I would have to be able to get behind it and know that it is a feasible location. I’d be shocked i Mr. Lay has an “ethical” broker that can get behind this club and sell it with integrity. I don’t need a commission that badly.
In order to sell this location a broker would have to misrepresent the potential for growth to put some “pie in the sky”. Mr. Lay knows someone that can help you get it listed, but I strongly advise to to beware of buyer’s remorse and possible litigation after the fact. My advise to you would be to dig in and try to get it to a breakeven point and give me a call. I won’t lsit it, but I will tell you how you can sell it and who to market it to, and I will do this free of charge, but you need to be breaking even to make it work. You might get anywhere from 19k-29k for it. If you need some help raising membership I will be happy to consult with you for free. I have been a health club consultant for a number of years and this is my background. I do not expect to get paid. I am happy to help.
Positive-Healthy, I am not sure what Curves would do on your re-sale. I have never sold a club that is in your position. In order for your club to be marketable you would need to demonstrate that it can turn a profit. I have seen clubs in 6k populations that make money and others that don’t. Most do not in that low of a population base.
If you found a buyer Curves would likely look at the buyers income needs and liquidity to determine if they can keep the location open. I double that they would allow the transfer to someone that couldn’t cash flow it. They couldn’t deny a transfer to a qualified buyer.
One more thought, In order for a broker to be effective AND ETHICAL, they need to believe in what they are selling. I truly believe in Curves as a brand and a franchise. I respect that others here have different opinions, but I find it amusing that Mr. Lay knows someone that has a true belief in Curves. Anyone that Mr. Lay speaks with will undoubtly have a negative opnion of Curves and have a would be unethical selling somethign that they believe is a flawed brand. You might as well get Mr. Lay to sell your club.