MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 1)

Comments

1. Darlene says:

   July 14, 2008 at 11:12 pm

   Very interesting series/journey we are about to embark on. I will reserve my initial comments until I have read a little more. Suffice it to say you have at least one reader interested in hearing more about what you have to say on this topic. More please…

   Darlene
   Interview Guru
   http://www.interviewchatter.com

   Reply
2. David says:

   July 15, 2008 at 9:26 am

   Thank you Darlene.

   I can’t wait to see what you think once Sean “releases” the whole thing!

   Looking forward to hearing your thoughts,

   DS

   Reply
3. sean says:

   July 18, 2008 at 12:17 pm

   Read David Shepard’s series Mary Kay: Hot or NOT? (Or, as I lovingly call it, The Kaybot Manifesto)

   MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 1 of 4)

   MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 2 of 4)

   MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 3 of 4)

   MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 4 of 4)

   If anyone would like to print a rebuttal or offer an alternative article, please email Sean at info[at]ideafarm.net

   Reply
4. ex-consultant says:

   July 18, 2008 at 1:31 pm

   I will agree that there are people who like the personalized shopping experience like Mary Kay has to offer. But my experience, as an ex-Mary Kay consultant, was not so much that they enjoyed the “personalized” experience, as much as they valued the “free delivery on demand” part of it more. My experience was that most wanted the product at the most inconvenient times and now! Call me a negative nelly, but I do have a life and responsibilities too and no, they don’t take a back seat to your eyelashes, etc.! If it wasn’t important to call me when you knew you were running out of product and you purposely waited until tonight, at 6:35PM, to tell me that you have a date arriving in 25 minutes and no eyelashes… oh well! It sucks to be you!

   “First, the end consumer gets a personal, one on one experience with a “real” live person.”

   Every customer, (except for on-line purchasers) gets one on one experience with a “real” live person one way or another, no matter where they shop. Case in point, I walked into Shopper’s Drug Mart and I was approached by a sales associate in less than one minute. I had a personalized shopping experience, including a “pampering session” of Benefit products on demand. Another time, I walked into a PharmaPlus store, perused the make-up aisle for a couple of minutes before I was approached by a sales associate. I asked about a certain mineral “foundation” and was offered a demo (pampering session) right there. With my kids in tow.

   Neither asked me to fill out an application to work for their company, purchase a “starter kit” or pressure sell me into purchasing a full wagon from which to sell. The product I bought was 1/2 of what I would’ve paid via a Mary Kay Consultant and imo, better. But make-up and skin care are a personal choice and each performs differently on different people hence the reason the industry is multi-billion with multi-players. And as you pointed out, people are brand loyal. So I can only speak for myself. However, I’m always on the market for Advil, children’s cold and allergy medicines, feminine hygiene products, etc. So walking via cosmetics and skin care and picking up what I “know” I need on the way to the medicinal aisle is no biggie.

   Lastly, as a woman, I can say, emphatically, that once I find something I like, I remember it and do not need somebody keeping record of the product type for me. Which is another thing Mary Kay has going for it. It’s trendy!! It changes its formulas and discontinues product frequently.

   Reply
5. David says:

   July 19, 2008 at 11:53 am

   Ex-Consultant,

   Hi! Thanks for taking the time to weigh in.

   You make an excellent point in regards to the difference between “personalized” and “free delivery on demand”.

   That is one of the things that we discuss on our blog often. There are some people that do not like the “always on” aspect of being a Mary Kay consultant. There are some that love it!

   From another point of view, there are some that “pander” (that is becoming a popular word these days, isn’t it?) to their clients every whim. Some even capitulate to the point of absurdity… like giving away their profit because they feel this is the only way to make a sale. The majority of the commentators on Balanced Mary Kay do not agree with this and take a more “business is business” stance. They provide excellent customer service within certain parameters. If you need something outside of those parameters, too bad.

   It is an interesting balance that ultimately needs to be determined by ones personal choice based on their circumstances.

   Thanks

   Reply
6. David says:

   July 19, 2008 at 12:44 pm

   Ex-consultant,

   I figured it would be best for me to address each thing you brought up as a separate comment response, so this is in response to your “real” live person observation.

   I am not sure if you read the whole paragraph for which that sentence served as an introduction, but the emphasis was on the “personal” and customization that comes from having and dealing with the same person that knows you personally. The simple point I am trying to make is that for some (perhaps many) women, there are many “little” things that make up their unique “profile”. Things like allergies, likes and dislikes, irritations, agitations, personality quirks, and many, many more set YOU apart from the next woman. For instance, my wife has some clients that do not ever want to be called. When they need something, they will call. Others, will never remember to order anything and run out of everything and call with a “25 minute emergency” such as you described. These clients usually LOVE it when she (my wife) calls them once a month to see how things are going. Usually they will say, “oh yeah, I need ‘xyz’, thank you SO much for calling!”

   It is this customization (not just the call or not call, the many different personality and skin types that having a personal rep. can be customized to service) that I was citing as a benefit. It was not the “living, breathing, flesh and blood” person that creates the difference. In your illustration, it sounds like you had a good experience with the person that helped you. In the Mary Kay scenario, if you had run into a similarly helpful person, you would have her phone number and be able to get that same good experience every time you deal with her. I am not familiar with “Shoppers Drug Mart”, but I would hazard a guess that the person that was so helpful on that visit may or may not be there the next time you go in.

   My statement here is not meant to say that this is or is not the best way to provide excellent customer service. I am simply pointing out that this is the theory upon which having personal consultants is built.

   This is also something that we discuss on the Balanced Mary Kay blog.

   As I point out, there are some that really prefer NOT to have this style of customization. The “big box” stores like Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc. prove that many people want to have a consistent experience even if it comes at the expense of that experience not being tailor-fit to their particular needs.

   Reply
7. David says:

   July 19, 2008 at 1:01 pm

   Ex-consultant,

   Moving right along, you said:

   “Neither asked me to fill out an application to work for their company, purchase a “starter kit” or pressure sell me into purchasing a full wagon from which to sell.”

   This is something that almost everyone in Mary Kay that I have had the opportunity of conversing with find this practice repugnant. I know that many who have had a bad experience with Mary Kay can trace it back to something akin to this in the genesis of their “journey”.

   I really don’t know what to tell you about this. I know that people do it. I know that the ones that do it (apparently) are surrounded by others that do it and promote it as the “way” to get to the top. Not only is it not professional, it is very self destructive. It is just plain stupid to try to recruit as a team member every client (or even potential client) that you run into.

   That said, where I live, there is another “big box” store called Target. Almost every time I walk in there, they try to convince me to get one of their credit cards. Personally, I think it is dumb for them to harass me every time that I walk in there, but that is their choice.

   Some grocery stores that I shop at here almost always have long lines. others have short lines but there are other things that I don’t like about them. What makes me choose one store over another to fill my refrigerator is going to be different than my neighbors.

   Everybody that sells something, whether they are a small, independent individual or a large, retail chain, needs to feature some things in exchange for others. You can’t offer it all. No matter who you are, the positive you offer to reach one consumer will turn off another.

   But I digress. Signing people (or trying to sign them up) on sight is really dumb! You, as a consumer, deserve to not have to deal with that. I am sorry that your only exposure to Mary Kay entailed this embarrassing behavior!

   Reply
8. David says:

   July 19, 2008 at 1:11 pm

   Ex-consultant,

   Finally, you say:

   “Lastly, as a woman, I can say, emphatically, that once I find something I like, I remember it and do not need somebody keeping record of the product type for me.”

   It seems that you are saying (emphatically, I might add) that ALL women do not need someone keeping record for them.

   I am not sure if that was your intent, or if it was just a misinterpretation of your sentence syntax.

   If that is what you are saying, I disagree. I think that whether a woman is in need of (or simply wants) this kind of service has more to do with her personality than her gender.

   Further, remembering “A” product or set of products that you liked is not the extent of this kind of personalized service. It entails knowing your skin type and recommending new products that may be beneficial to you when they come out. (Have you ever found a product – perhaps a moisturizer – that has been out for years, and said, “I wish I had known about this when it first came out”?)

   Then you say:

   “Which is another thing Mary Kay has going for it. It’s trendy!! It changes its formulas and discontinues product frequently.”

   This “feels” sarcastic. Is that what you were going for?

   If you were not going for sarcasm, I agree with you.

   If you were, my response is:

   “Which is another thing Mary Kay has going for it. It’s trendy!! It changes its formulas and discontinues product frequently.”

   For some, this will be a good thing. For others a bad thing. If you “dig” it (or whatever the kids are saying these days) then it is great. If you don’t, than find a company that has a more stable line that doesn’t create frustration for you.

   Reply
9. Scam says:

   July 19, 2008 at 3:21 pm

   Sean, please forgive the self-promotion but if you want an alternative view then perhaps Mary Kay, A Scam Club For Girls may fit the bill.

   It has plenty of comments, including several from David himself.

   Reply
10. mk4me says:

    July 19, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Longtime consultant here, love the business, love the clients, the only time I was asked to deliver super fast was for a hubby on Christmas Eve who had yet to buy his wife a gift, I was happy to oblige.

    I do not ask everyone to fill out an agreement and join Mk, personally, I don’t want just anyone on my team, I want people I want to work with.

    I have loads of clients that do like me to keep info on file, I will get messages such as hi, this is Debbie, when you can, I need my cleanser and the lipstick I ordered two times ago, I threw the empty tube away, so I hope you have the color in your records!

    So I guess, it just depends on how much you enjoy what you do. There are pros and cons in all jobs.

    Reply
11. sean says:

    July 19, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    mk4me
    What are the qualities of those who succeed? What does it take to be on your team?

    What kinds of people don’t succeed? What qualities would keep someone off your team?

    Can you tell early on if a certain person is going to make it or drop out?

    Reply
12. mk4me says:

    July 19, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    Wow Sean, I will do my best – that is quite a list of questions and I will say “deep” answers would be better than non thinking quickies but I will take them one at a time.

    The qualities to succeed, I look for people that love the product and people that care about others. I look for people that can make others feel comfortable and are willing to learn. I like to be around people that can have fun and laugh and don’t take themselves too seriously or think that they are “all that”. When I do talk to someone about the Company, we talk about what they would look for in the Company, are they looking for parttime income to supplement a full time job, are they looking for personal growth, are they looking at having it more for the social/girlfriend time, etc… there are more reasons to become a consultant than a certain amount of money (of course money is usually part of the equation).

    If there are people that can’t not seperate “no” to a business question from someone not liking them, then it isn’t the right type of business from them. If someone is looking for a get rich quick scheme, it isn’t for them. If someone thinks they can sign an agreement and the next day people are going to line up at their door to purchase loads of Mk, it itsn’t the right business for them. I look for someone that is willing to put forth some effort and commitment as they start a business. It is just like planting a seed, you must plant the seed, but that isn’t the end of it, if you don’t water it and fertilizie it and take care of it, the seed will not grow, it will lay dorment in the ground and eventually rot. This will happen in any business, it takes more than planting the seed, you must nuture it as well.

    Imho, the people that don’t succeed: often, expect instant gratification, want big $$ with little effort, don’t have enough self discipline, get discouraged very easily, don’t manage their money properly, are too busy at the time they take on Mk to give it proper attention,
    don’t get proper guidance from the very beginning and start off on the wrong foot, I have seen people that for whatever reasons, just don’t seem to attrack people, just to name a few.

    What would keep someone off my team?? I try hard not to prejudge, but dishonesty for one, a negative attitude, no love of the product just a desire for money. If I didn’t care for the person, plan and simple, I don’t have to offer the Opportunity to them, if they want to join MK, I am sure they will find someone willing to recruit them, but I prefer to surround myself with people I enjoy being around.

    And the bottom line is “NO”, there is no way to tell if a certain person is going to make it or drop out. I have been surprised more than once that someone you thought might be great just doesn’t “get it” and then others you just watch blossom into a great consultant. If there is a rhyme or reason to who does great, it hasn’t become clear to me.

    Reply
13. sean says:

    July 20, 2008 at 5:34 am

    mk4me: thanks for your insightful and helpful response.

    Your qualities for success include:

    - love the product
    - care about others
    - are likeable
    - make others feel comfortable
    - willing to learn
    - have fun and laugh
    - don’t take themselves too seriously
    - don’t think that they are “all that”
    - looking for parttime income
    - looking for personal growth
    - not just looking for social/girlfriend time
    - not solely money-motivated

    Your qualities for failure include:
    - take rejection personally
    - are easily discouraged
    - looking for a get rich quick scheme
    - Expect instant success
    - Not willing to invest effort and commitment
    - Don’t have time to dedicate to it
    - Are dishonest
    - Are solely money-motivated
    - Don’t love the product
    - Have a negative attitude

    Of those who don’t meet your criteria, you say, “I am sure they will find someone willing to recruit them.”

    A main criticism of MLM is that companies recruit people they know (or should know) will fail, but recruit them anyway to get their sales… The old “Pallets of Amway shoe polish rusting in 1000 garages” syndrome.

    Don’t you think that the angry backlash from Pink Truthers and ex-consultants is due to recruitment of the wrong people and/or feeding the wrong expectations? While some of the qualities you cite are inherently negative (dishonesty, greed, etc.) some are simply character traits of nice people (sensitivity to rejection, lack of business experience) who feel they are being judged.

    Don’t you think that one of the reasons for the angry backlash is that even if someone doesn’t meet the criteria you cite, “they will find someone willing to recruit them.” The wrong people with the wrong expectations are always a recipe for bad feelings.

    Wouldn’t it behoove everyone if Mary Kay tightened up its recruiting practices to stem the tide of future failures? For while MK may be creating some successful, life enhancing experiences for some, it’s also clearly doing harm and prompting negative experiences for others. From what I’ve seen, MK’s reaction is “just ignore them.”
    What do the others think?

    Reply
14. mk4me says:

    July 20, 2008 at 11:29 am

    Mly opinion is just that- mine, I am not a million dollar director and perhaps because I look for the type of person I like to hang with, possibly that is why I am just a “good” director. Other people might have a totally different opinion in what type of people they like to be around. Who am I to judge who might do great in MK if they think they want to be a consultant?

    And I disagree, I do not think MK is clearly doing harm and promoting negative experiences, I see individuals doing this.

    As you can see in my last paragraph (above post) and from my years of experience, there is no way to tell who will be great or who will not before they actually try it.

    And correction to my list, some people do just join for the social/girlfriend time, if that is what they get out of MK and that is what they joined for, they haven’t failed at MK, they got what they wanted from it.

    I hate it when people say someone “failed” at MK because they didn’t stay with it, people come in and leave Mary Kay for all different reasons. Moving on to something else doesn’t make an individual a failure.

    How would you suggest Mary Kay screen out cerrtain individuals?? – Silly scenarios but say I am a shopaholic – does the Mall have a right to stop me from entering? Because some people spend too much, should the mall start screening people before the allow them to enter? Let’s face it the majority of people go to the mall and buy what they can afford.

    Casinos don’t keep people out that may bet too much – Liquor store must sell to everyone. It is easy to say that MK should be more selective, but how would they do it and not be unfair? I can also see the mess it would make if they turned someone down, can we spell lawsuit?

    We must be 18 to sign an agreement, we must be 18 to get credit, we are allowed to get married, vote, have kids, go to war, etc… if I sound cruel, I apologize, but as a adult, you should have the right to go into a venture such as MK and have the smarts not to spend money you can not afford to spend, you should have the intelligence not to buy prizes and recognition, and if you need to have the praise so badly, you should take the money and make an appointment with a counselor. Making poor business decisions after the first or second mistake, becomes the responsibility of the person making the mistake.

    Making a few mistakes is one thing, reading some of the sagas of failures in MK, there is absolutely no reason to end up $25,000 or more in debt unless you are trying to appear as something you are not. I have read many of the stories that shock us, and if you just take it as the truth it is really sad. Take some time to think about it, most say “I was successful and this happended to me, I have all this debit but I was successfu because I had the pink cadillac and I went on top director trips”. – well, excuse me, because you looked succesful doesn’t mean you were successful, if you had actually been successful, you would not have had all that debt. There are many directors that have the Cadillac and go on the trips and have no debt, those are the successful directors, however because they know the business can be done ethically and one can make money, they are not on negative sites complaining about things. I have been appauld at some of the stories that I have read on pt, fake consultants, charging orders to consultants to finish a prize, uggg, if you are faking what you are doing, how in the heck do you expect to keep it up? Let’s face it a fake consultant today, isn’t all of a sudden decide to work her business and add to production. Many posts on pt has an ex-director “confessing” or “coming clean” with all the things she did wrong, of course, she justifies it with it was done as a standard practice in her area, etc… please, my kids got punished if their excuse for doing something wrong was “because so and so did it” – well that doesn’t get you out of trouble because you knew you shouldn’t have done it and you should have told so and so, not to have done it and not joined in the bad behavior. Don’t we as parents teach our children to make the right choices and not follow the crowd?

    I am not saying all in Mary Kay is perfect. It is a Company made up of individuals, people are not perfect, people will make mistakes, to expect more from Mary Kay than we do the rest of the World is silly.

    The most important thing to remember, as a consultant, build your customer base, as you build you customer base, you can build your inventory accordingly, recruit after building a customer base and work full circle. Don’t try to short cut the system.

    Reply
15. Natalie says:

    July 20, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Yes, we are all accountable. But do the MK ladies have to be so darn agressive when it comes to recruiting? Can’t “no” simply mean “no”, not maybe, not it’ll turn into yes if I keep hounding them?

    Reply
16. mk4me says:

    July 20, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    Natalie, not all are, maybe those of us that aren’t, simply aren’t noticed. Personally, if someone isn’t interested in my products or the business, it is no big deal to me. If I have to pester someone just to join, I would have to pester them the rest of their career to do anything, and I just don’t have the time or energy to do that.

    Reply
17. Scam says:

    July 20, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    Is it not true that to be successful in business you need to demostrate a little bit of aggression in order to get ahead of the crowd?

    I don’t believe thats indicative of mk4me but in my experience network marketers are more aggressive than most.

    Maybe it’s because mlm is so darn bad they have to be that way in order to pay their bills?

    Reply
18. mk4me says:

    July 20, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    Hey Scam, I have approx. 100 consultants in my unit, lovely ladies and out of the crew there are about 2 that I wish they would “tone” it down a bit. But would it surprise you if I told you that these people are a bit aggressive in all other aspects of their lives as well?

    I hold to the belief that the aggressive people get the attention and the non-aggressive people probably out number the others but aren’t as visible.

    My philosophy, I would rather attract my clients, than attack my clients, by making my clients comfortable they will stay with me for a long time. If I am aggressive, I may have a great one time sale but I assure you my repeat business isn’t going to exist. Basically, being aggressive may be great for fast, big bucks but it will not pay off in the long run. I personally want my residule business as well as new business, I do not want to always be running to find my new “victim”.

    Just like the expression, it is the squeaky wheel that gets the oil! :)

    Reply
19. mk4me says:

    July 20, 2008 at 4:36 pm

    A great analogy, when runners start a race, have you ever noticed that the majority start pretty steady and pace themselves, they hold onto their reserves for the end of the race. You will usually see one or two jump out ahead of the pack, they are noticed over the “pack” but watch the race long enough and usually the pack starts catching up and the two that “aggressively” started the race start to fade and then begin to drop further and further behind blending into the pack when the others that have pace themselves can “kick” it in and start pulling away from the pack to cross the finish line! (ok, Long winded but I hope it helps explain my logic) – the two racers that jumped out, stood out but in the long run usually weren’t the winners.

    Reply
20. Scam says:

    July 20, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    mk4me, you and I are obviously polar opposites in our view on MK/mlm but I want to say right now that I respect the way you go about your business.

    You certainly have the right idea – someone coming to you instead of being persued is going to be a better long-term prospect.

    As you are probably aware, I’m in the UK so my experience of mlm is possibly with companies that are different to those in the US.

    However, I remember being hounded day and night by 3 different organisations who were far worse than any religious nut you may have ever met.

    They absolutely would not take no for an answer and were intent on taking my money to but their ‘fantastic starter kit’.

    I know other people who joined each of those companies – after paying their money they got zero support and, therefore, never made any sales.

    Obviously, this may be coincidence but, nevertheless, this has been my lasting impression of mlm ever since.

    At the end of the day though, these aggresive recruiters got what they wanted – not a new recruit, just their money.

    If they had been more passive they absolutely would not have got any of my friends to sign up ever.

    Of course that would have been a good thing because I’d still be friends with them now.

    As it was, I had to cut them all loose because they then started pestering me to buy their overpriced rubbish.

    Reply
21. Shades of Pink says:

    July 20, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    So, Scam, with these other companies you encountered; would you have been purchasing your starter kit from the recruiter? Was the recruiter profiting from your purchase of the starter kit? If so, that is already not how MK operates. When someone joins my team and purchases a starter kit, I get nothing at that point. They purchase the kit from Mary Kay, Inc. It is not until they order products from Mary Kay, Inc. that I would get paid any commission. It is in a MK Consultant’s best interest to help her team sell the products.
    I don’t go around asking people to join Mary Kay because I would hate it if someone did that to me.

    Reply
22. Scam says:

    July 20, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    If I had joined then I would have been buying the starter kit from the company but the recruiter would have taken a percentage of that figure.

    I know in Mary Kay, as you say, all proceeds from the starter kit go to corporate but that’s not how all mlms operate is it?

    Reply
23. Shades of Pink says:

    July 20, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    I don’t think it is. Personally, I never would have considered a home based business except that I absolutely love the MK products and can sell them in good conscience. I just wanted extra money here and there, but I see the potential to get much more from it.
    As far as other mlm companies or even direct sales companies, I have heard about them and none appeal to me. I think many are more confusing than Mary Kay. JMO. I know there are many out there that I have not even heard of.

    Reply
24. ex-consultant says:

    July 20, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    David said: “This “feels” sarcastic. Is that what you were going for?”

    Unfortunately from my perspective, yup, I was being sarcastic.

    David, the way you write, it makes me recall the way I felt when I joined Mary Kay in the first place.

    It’s too bad we hadn’t “met” when I was a newbie. You might’ve piloted me in a different direction. As it is, I was surrounded by greedy, selfish poo.

    Don’t mean to be offensive. People just really need a reality check.

    Reply
25. mk4me says:

    July 20, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Hey Scam, thanks for the compliment, actually it means alot after reading your comments on mlms and friends. So thanks again.

    A great point you brought up in your conversation with Shades, the pro-mkers opinion that MK is not, in fact, an mlm, but a direct sales company and there is a difference.

    I know after the local paper published my pic with the first car I earned, I started receiving calls from other direct sales/mlm companies… trying to get me to join their Company. It was actually a little flattering but funny too. I was told, omg, if you are doing this good in MK, you could do so much better in X Company. The conversations went something like this:

    mlm caller: mk4me, we have people winning so much more than a car, you could even get your own private island, etc….

    mk4me:Sounds great, have you won a car or bought an island yet? No? oh, well, you see I think one of the reasons I have done well with MK is I love the products – you haven’t mentioned one word about your products to me? (Insert recruiting speil here). But you focus on recruiting and not selling and with the way you described the pay structure why, even if I would join your Company, why would I join with you? I would go find someone at the top and join, because I would already be further ahead than you from the day I joined, right??
    mlm caller: well, you just can’t do that,
    mk4me – hmm, why not??
    mlm caller: well, because… hmmm…
    mk4me – thank you for the offer but I am happy and believe in my products and my Company, when you have acheived what I have acheived in Mary Kay, I would be more than happy to discuss businesses again with you. – have a great day!

    Some didn’t want to say “good bye” but my “no” stayed a NO.

    Reply
26. Shades of Pink says:

    July 20, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    Yes, MK4ME! I never heard of “mlm” until I started reading blogs. When I see Mary Kay, Avon, Pampered Chef, Partylite, Tastefully Simple, Tupperware; I think of products to sell. NONE of them appeal to me. Mary Kay fixed my face. I decided that was a company I could get behind. Plain and simple. I view these companies as sales opportunity and the focus is selling NOT recruiting. Perhaps people from those “other” mlm’s invaded these other companies? Hmmm….

    Reply
27. Scam says:

    July 21, 2008 at 7:28 am

    mk4me – you’re welcome.

    I’ll comment more later but, for now, I’m off to try and sort my erratic hosting out :(

    Reply

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4. MARY KAY: Business or Hobby? What the IRS Thinks… says:

   July 19, 2008 at 1:35 pm

   [...] MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 1 of 4) [...]

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