MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 4 of 4)
July 17, 2008 by Sean Kelly
Filed under Business
(FranchisePick.Com) This is the fourth of a series of guest posts on the Mary Kay cosmetics business opportunity by David Shepherd, publisher of the Balanced Mary Kay blog. Thanks to David for taking me up on the invite to guest post.
Are you a Mary Kay consultant? Ex-consultant? Customer? Ex-customer? Please share you experience and opinion with a comment at the bottom of this post.
MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 1 of 4)
MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 2 of 4)
MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 3 of 4)
MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 4 of 4)
Mary Kay Cosmetics: Hot or Not? (Part 4) by David Shepherd
Pink Truth “sample.”
For instance on July 10, some evidence was presented that implicated that Mary Kay had hired a private investigator to keep tabs on one of their directors. A few of the reasons for this are listed and then the comments start.
“macuser” says:
“Gayle wanted to be on a talk show as a host and Mary Kay Corporate said no way you have a contact with us and if you want your NSD retirement you can’t do it. Gayle is a drug addict and an alcoholic hence her extreme behavior over the years.”
“magenta” says:
“gayle is a friends national…. we saw her dragging on cigarettes in wrinkled linen and looking rather unprofessional..at seminar…….that is what i was asking…why hasn’t she retired yet?? isnt she old enuff?? or is something in those formerly pink jars keeping her young?”
Then they post a picture of her and start speculating about how many plastic surgeries she has had while simultaneously describing how unattractive they feel she looks.
In the first place, posting information about an investigation that a corporation conducted (without having all the details) is fairly pointless. Unless you consider stirring up needless controversy to be a point. This is the kind of brash, trite drivel that one must sort through in order to find advice about what to avoid (and why).
Pink Truth (for the most part) asserts that you should avoid Mary Kay completely. And if we are too take this July 10 post as the rationale, it is because they may spy on you and (at best) you can look forward to being an overly airbrushed woman that they all feel is ugly anyway (despite having wasted your hard earned money on plastic surgery). Seems asinine to me.
There are other sites, Pink Lighthouse and The Pinking Shears (to name a few) that abstain from the absurd and ridiculous while accurately laying out the problems and frustrations they have had with Mary Kay. If you want to find out what the pitfalls of Mary Kay are but don’t feel like wading through the (fecal matter of a bull), I recommend finding an alternative to Pink Truth.
The Truth.
The truth is, if it sounds too good to be true, it is.
If you are being offered the Mary Kay opportunity and it sounds too good to be true, you should run away… it is probably not the “real” Mary Kay. If someone is telling you that once you sign up, buy inventory or reach a certain level, you will be “set for life” don’t even ask them questions, just say, “no thank you.”
If someone is telling you that the answer to your problems is to spend more money, raise your eyebrows (if you have glasses or sunglasses on look at them over those) look them right in the eyes, pause for a good 30 seconds to allow them to feel a little more self-conscious, and then say, “are you serious.” Try to keep a straight face. When they start trying to redirect the conversation, cut them off and say something along the lines of you would be better off investing your money in the lottery and politely dismiss yourself from the conversation.
But if you are being given the truth straight up, you will probably recognize it because there is no suggestion of you getting something for nothing. Free handouts don’t really exist in abundance in this world. If there are all pros and no cons, someone is not telling you all the truth.
With any opportunity that someone presents to you, they will tell you what is good about it and why you should consider it. It is then up to you to find out what the potential pitfalls may be. If they are being intentionally vague, you may need to come right out and say, “What is the catch?” If they tell you there is no catch, you should be very suspicious (at best).
Another good question is, “What is in it for you?” followed by, “If this is so lucrative, why are you offering it to me?” A genuine opportunity (i.e. not a hoax or scam) will have good answers to these questions and should reveal any potential downsides. If you can’t see anything “bad” or potentially negative about the opportunity, it probably is too good to be true and should be left alone. If, by contrast, you can plainly see what is good and bad and are willing to deal with the bad (in this case, “bad” could mean lots of phone work, finding and following up on leads) to get the good, than give it a shot. If someone is not willing to be truthful enough with you to let you know the “cons” of the situation, you should not trust them to be the ones to lead you through the process!
Let me break it down for you.
Scam artists and conmen (and women) exist in every walk of life. Mary Kay is not exempt from the trouble they cause. Much discussion has taken place (and is taking place) over the best way to deal with these leeches of society. Some advocate tighter restrictions while others recommend better consumer education. But to the ones reading this article, the best advice I can give you is to arm yourself with common sense and don’t let yourself get greedy when you see something that looks too good to be true. After all, “they” also say, “You can’t con an honest man”.
Is Mary Kay hot or not? That is yet to be determined because it has to be asked in the context of YOU. Is Mary Kay hot or not – for YOU. For some people reading this, the answer will be “HOT!!!” while others will definitively choose “NOT!!!!” And some of you reading this will just have to try it and find out.
Are the denizens of Pink Truth “lazy losers”? Not necessarily.
Is there a grain of truth to some of the things they say? Perhaps. After all, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Are there better places to “arm yourself” with information about Mary Kay? Absolutely.
If you like one-sided, tabloid-esque, vitriolic, gossip about how terrible Mary Kay is, visit Pink Truth. It has all the entertainment value and journalistic integrity of The National Enquirer. (The Sun if you happen to live in Britain.)
If you want diverse discussion about the many issues I have brought up here (and many more that I simply did not have the space to discuss), come visit us at Balanced Mary Kay. I make it an aim to allow all perspectives and points of view. We are looking for people that have had bad experiences, good experiences and everything in between to share, so that everyone can genuinely benefit from a more detailed picture of what Mary Kay is really like. If you would like to help us do that, or just want to read along and get a front row seat to all the action, come on by. We would love to see you over there.
Conclusion – You want the truth? Think you can handle the truth? Here it is:
Mary Kay is just a company. Get involved at your own risk.
What do you think? Share a comment below.
David Shepherd is an account executive at a multicultural marketing and advertising agency in LA. His wife sells Mary Kay and he blogs about it at Balanced Mary Kay.
Read David Shepard’s series Mary Kay: Hot or NOT? (Or, as I lovingly call it, The Kaybot Manifesto)
MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 1 of 4)
MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 2 of 4)
MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 3 of 4)
MARY KAY: Hot or NOT? (Part 4 of 4)
If anyone would like to print a rebuttal or offer an alternative article, please email Sean at info[at]ideafarm.net
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Unhappy Franchisee: Franchising rumors, rants, controversies, issues, complaints & insider information you’re not supposed to know.
Unbiased franchise information, franchise interviews and detailed, searchable information on 400 franchise and business opportunities..
Franchisees, customers & experts vote for their favorite new franchises at Top New Franchise: Who’s hot. Who’s not.
Blessed,
Look, I am sorry to have to do this to you, but this is going to have to wait for another time.
To be perfectly honest, I am not sure when I will have the time to sit down and create a definition for you so that I can answer your question about how many victims there are in Mary Kay.
In the meantime, may I recommend that you read what I have already written!
Thanks
Dave,
No rush. I appreciate your thoughts. I look forward to reading your definition of just what is a MK MLM victim. Have a good night and take care.
Blessed
Blessed,
While you are waiting, perhaps you could take the time to explain why you are placing this expectation to create a definition for a concept you have created on me.
I said (have said, and will continue to say) that there are surely women who have been victimized in Mary Kay.
You have created this concept of them being victimized by Mary Kay. As though the structure itself has violated them.
I asked you to explain that.
Now you want me to define it?
Why?
I’m curious to know which type of network marketer each of the commentators on this thread thinks they are?
Blessed do you consider yourself to be a victim of the ‘MK MLM’ and, if so, in what way have you suffered from the experience?
Maybe if you can answer that it would put things into perspective.
mk4me, the reason you tripped whilst going up the stairs is glaringly obvious.. stairs are reminiscent of the steps of a pyramid, therefore it was your involvement in mlm that was to blame for your mishap.
:D
Waving to Scam, good thought but I see MK as a direct sales company and then team building can become another avenue of business.
Everyone receives the same discount on the product and a director receives the same %’s a consultant can make on their personal team.
I see mlm, as the higher up you are the more money you are making. and then the next one down makes less and then next one down makes less. (I had one friend years and years ago, that the money was even handed down thru the ranks – not from the Company) – that is how I have always viewed “mlm’s” .
In MK one can move ahead of your recruiter, I happen to be a director, my recruiter chooses not to be, it didn’t stop me, I am making more than she is. A person who started after me can make it to NSD before me. We all must start at the same starting point and move up by doing certain things. (ps – mk didn’t not ever say buy your way up the laddder)
blessed, you didn’t comment on my issue with how you make woman sound? I took great effort to try to explain why we question what you are saying and you didn’t even grant me a reply. ??
Whatz up w/that?
Ok then mk4me, speaking hypothetically, is it possible to advance through the ranks of Mary Kay by ‘buying your way up the ladder’ if someone was so inclined?
Dave,
In your 7/23, 3:04 pm post you said:
“It is not, repeat not difficult for me to admit that there have been victims in Mary Kay. I have said that from the beginning. I have said it all along. And, I am not going to change that now.”
Surely, the administrator of a blog called “The Truth About Mary Kay” who professes to present a “balanced” perspective on the topic, and particularly after such a robust declaration, “…that there have been victims in Mary Kay,” you must have an original, personal concept of just what is a Mary Kay Cosmetics victim. How, otherwise, could you begin to even consider making such a statement of understanding re victims of the Mary Kay Cosmetics experience.
So Dave, I continue to look forward to your definition of just what is (not what’s not), but what is a victim of the Mary Kay Cosmetics experience. Please provide your definition of a Mary Kay Cosmetics victim. Have a good night.
Blessed
Mk4me,
I indeed understand you and other women can walk, chew gum, and do many other things at the same time. Please know I have no intention of insulting women.
Blessed
Scam,
My wife and I are penning something about our Mary Kay adventure. More details sometime in the future when this is released.
Blessed
Hey Scam, the answer is to that question is “yes” but it is going cost a bundle and it is going to keep costing to continue to appear to be “successful”. Why someone would want to spend that much money to move up the ladder is (sorry) insane.
And I do have proof, read the stories of those that have tried “buying” it. – it doesn’t work for long.
Blessed,
I am sorry but I am done. And I will explain why.
This started out with mk4me saying,
“It is just my humble opinion but if you are a Cadillac driving director but thousands and thousands of dollars in debt because you financed your car, you appear to be “successful”, in reality, you weren’t.”
To which, “ex-consultant” said,
“Bingo!!! Heeellloooooo!?!?!?! THAT is the reality of Mary Kay.”
To which I responded,
“…how you can say that because it was your experience (or the experience of an anonymous commentator that you have never met) it must be the “reality” of Mary Kay?”
To which you (blessed) retorted,
“So where’s YOUR proof that the MK experience is the wonderful “opportunity” MKC and its minions suggest it is? What are you relying on to make this assertion?”
I responded by asking you what you wanted me to prove. I pointed out that I have never asserted (as you seem to accuse me of doing) that the “…MK experience is the wonderful “opportunity” MKC and its minions suggest it is…” but have maintained that it is just a company and one should get involved at one’s own risk.
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I pointedly asked you two things:
What do you want me to prove?
What has led you to believe that Mary Kay is inherently evil?
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You ignored both of those questions and skipped to this:
“How many injured women would it take for a talented blog administrator, a communicator like you, for someone with some hutsba in the advertising industry, to begin to convey the MK MLM risk is so potentially injurious it should be avoided?”
And I have spent all day asking, and I am still asking you,
What do you mean by injured? What do you mean by victimized?
Your responses have led me to believe that your definition of a victim may include someone who:
1. Had a script used on them
2. Suffered financial loss
3. Suffered emotionally
4. Experienced hardships in relationships
But now, when it really comes down to it, you are not even willing to back up all your rhetoric with a simple definition.
Instead you want me to define a concept you came up with.
We have pretty much all asked you now – even my good friend “scam” has asked you – what your experience was like.
I know, I know, “you are “penning” it as we speak”; “You are afraid that you will reveal too much about your personal life if you share”.
Whatever, if you don’t want to share, don’t share.
I am tired of trying to talk to you through all your smoke and mirrors. If you would like to discuss what happened to you, I am still standing by. If you do come up with a definition of a “MK MLM Victim”, let me know. My answer will be the same as it has been all day.
End of the day, the point is the same…
Mary Kay is just a company. Get involved at your own risk.
Okay, blessed, I am going to try another angle, you and your wife are writing something (book or short story, etc) .. It is costing you time to write it (time is money, ink, paper, computer, etc, etc…, you will need an avenue to publish it (unless you are going to put it on the internet) – I have a friend that is a published author and I know it still costs her quite a bit of money to get a book onto the market. Until then she is financing a good part of the venture, hoping the book will do well and earn her money back. (which in her case so far, her books have).
If this is the venture you are persuing, if you end up with noone buying the book and the time and moeny you put into it becomes a “loss” – does that mean you will now be a writing victim??
Wow Dave!
In my mind’s eye you did an amazing Michael Jackson Moon-Walk as you tried to back peddle out of that one!
You didn’t like my definition of a MK MLM victim. You emphasize, you proclaim your acknowledgment that there are MK MLM victims. But even with this robust proclamation (which must include a requisite understanding of just what is a MK MLM victim), you now seem less willing to say just what is YOUR definition of a MK MLM victim. I’m surprised.
Why are you unwilling to share your definition of a MK MLM victim. Can’t you simply tell me what you’re talking about when you proclaim there are MK MLM victims? In the context of your statement, just what is a MK MLM victim?
I’m not asking you to define a concept I came up with (not sure where ya got that). I just wanna know what YOU are talking about when YOU say there are MK MLM victims. What’s your definition of a MK MLM victim? There is no smoke and mirrors here. It’s a simple question about a proclamation you made. This isn’t about my experience with MK. I’m asking you generally, as you’ve referred to the existence of MK MLM victims, to what are you referring.
What is a MK MLM victim? As my definition was inadequate, what’s YOUR definition of a MK MLM victim?
Blessed
Mk4Me,
We’re not writing a book, believe me.
Re the definition issue, you can perhaps help with this definition process. All I’m seeking is something close to a consensus regarding the definition of a MK MLM victim. Do you acknowledge there are MK MLM victims?
Blessed
Hey Blessed, I am off to pack but – first, I think anyone can be a victim to anything I guess if you really try to justify it – doesn’t mean that they truely are, but … I look at the term ‘victim’ more as a person that can not control the situation, for example, you were a victim of a flood, hurricane, car accident, etc… something beyond one’s control. I don’t feel so much that one is a victim if they have a choice in what happens to them. I could see a brand new consultant making a bad first decision on inventory if provided with the “you need a huge inventory to start” – but after that point, if you are not selling it, and you continue to order, or buy prizes, you are a willing participant. – You don’t get to scream “fowl” and at that point. I will not disagree that there may have been a few that have been advised to order more than I feel is necessary on a first order, but you are a victim of bad decision making or a victim of ignorance. After that, one can become a victim of their own low self-esteem or having too much pride, or not demonstarting any common sense.
So I guess if I really tried to strecth it one could be a victim of making a poor decision while in MK which I feel is different than being a victim of the MK MLM victim term that you want to use.
If I really want to be annoying, to answer your exact question {{Do you acknowledge there are MK MLM victim?}} – I would have to say NO, because I do not believe MK is an MLM. So if MK is not an MLM, then there can not be any MK MLM victim, if you want to get that selective about the words and terms.
I really have to agree with Dave, MK is a business – nothing more , nothing less.
Have a great day, everyone! :)
Mk4me,
Do you believe any women have ever been victimized through their involvement with the Mary Kay Cosmetics opportunity?
Blessed
Blessed,
Why do you still think that you can bully me or manipulate me into acknowledging something I don’t believe in just because you twist my words around?
I said that I believe there have been victims in Mary Kay.
In.
in
IN!!!!!!!
As in, people that were in Mary Kay fell victim to certain unfortunate situations.
What they fell victim to varies, but there are victims in Mary Kay.
Yet you seem to feel the need to make it seem like I said that the “mk mlm” was the one doing the victimizing. I did not say that.
Did you hear me?
I said.
I did not say that.
You said that.
Now, I think (as evidenced by lack of other people chiming in about this) that everyone else understands what I am saying.
I may be wrong. There may be people that are genuinely curious about what my thoughts on these subjects are.
However, you, Blessed, have proven to me (not just here, but on my site as well) that you really have no interest in my opinion or seeing things from any perspective other than your own.
You have proven to me, time and time again, that all you want to do is trap me into saying something that “advances” your cause of proving that Mary Kay is an evil monster that should be quarantined and destroyed.
It is your opinion and you are entitled to it. But when you try manipulating me into declaring your opinion for you, I lose interest.
I have lost interest.
To everyone else reading:
If you have questions about the many topics that have come up here, I am more than willing to share my thoughts. (Particularly if, in trying to keep up with “blessed”, I said some things that were confusing.) Please feel free to ask me, either here or on my blog Balanced Mary Kay, and I will be more than happy to try to bring any clarification I can about what you can expect to find in Mary Kay, what things to look out for, or any other tidbits I can provide.
I wholeheartedly endorse mk4me as well. She knows way more about this business than I do, and I would submit (as far as I can tell anyway) that she really seems to be doing pretty well with this thing.
Blessed:
If you would like to continue this conversation, please work your way through what has been said so far, figure out the answers to the questions that I have asked you, and come back to the table ready to have a discussion.
You’ve lost me Dave. I’m confused (gee, what are the odds, huh! ;-))
You specifically stated:
***
“It is not, repeat not difficult for me to admit that there have been victims in Mary Kay. I have said that from the beginning. I have said it all along. And, I am not going to change that now.”
***
Are you now saying there have been no women ever victimized through (as a direct result of) their association with Mary Kay Cosmetics?
Is there such a thing as a victim of the Mary Kay Cosmetics opportunity?
Blessed
Blessed, to tell you the truth, I am done too, there is no right answer to your question, my goal in posting anything is to try and help individuals not make mistakes or poor business decisions. I have been in business for years and feel I do things ethically and honestly and know I make money and pay my bills, etc.. I have a business/accounting & psych degree and years of experience. If my suggestions can assist others earn an income from a MK opportunity, make and manage their money properly, I am more than happy to provide that information. By putting info out on the net if someone is looking for the information, I would like them to have solid advice. If someone is in MK, they may be able to use the information to remain profitable.
Anyone needs a business plan – you don’t just “wing it” and hope. I would never leave on a trip without a map, one shouldn’t embarque on a business journey without a map either.
so on that closing note,
I am with David, I’m out of here. -
Dave & Mk4me,
So then you can’t even acknowledge there have been victims of the MK MLM?!?!? You can’t, or refuse to, even acknowledge the pain and suffering experienced by so many women and their families due to their involvement with the MK MLM opportunity?
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WOW!
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Let me get my dictionary over here….hold a second …le’me see …”F” …”Fair”…
Yea now …”B” …”Balanced.” ..wwhhhhaaaao boy!
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Double Wow!
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It would seem your unwillingness to even acknowledging the pain and suffering of so many women, not even acknowledging there are victims of (from) the MK MLM, well, it just speaks volumes about what Fair and Balanced is to you.
Now le’me see, what’s that word someone used recently, I think it rhymed with “bill” but, if I recall, rather than a “b” I think it actually began with an “sh.” Where’s my dictionary?
Blessed
Perhaps it can be asked this way, Dave, do you think that there are those higher up in the MK sales force that have manipulated, lied, abused some IBCs? If so, do you think that MKC should hold these higher ups accountable? Is MKC accountable at all for allowing these women to abuse someone else? After all, the sales force IS the company. And they are allowed to be in that position of perceived power.
I have written on Dave’s site some of my experience with MK. Not pretty, boys and girls, not pretty. I DO blame MKC for letting someone like my director be a director and be in a postion to manipulate me. I had heard about the crazy MK lady, but I figured that was MKA and the ones her age that wore too much make up. I didn’t know the craziness had spread to younger ones. Crazy, as in desperation crazy, not loud, in your face, MK all the time, nothing better, look at how much I wear at one time, crazy. I think that MKC should police it’s directors, to a degree. Make sure they know what they are talking about, while representing the company. I was not the first one that my director had lied to. I am pretty sure I was not the last. Yes, she is the one doing the lying. BUT, MKC allows her to be in the position to do it.
So, Dave, should MKC be held a little accountable for their rouge directors and highers?
OH, I forgot. Hi Blessed! Good posts. Even I got annoyed with you for a moment. Was more annoyed with Dave for not wanting to admit all was not well with his precious company, but you were right up there, too! :) I think either the two of you are one person, or you bring out the absolute WORST in each other. Hee Hee!
Seriously, LOVE Blessed’s posts. Like Dave’s sometimes. Blessed is a smart@ss and I like that. He doesn’t take no for an answer and he doesn’t go away. Can’t wait to hear your personal MK story, Blessed.
Hi Judi,
You know I love the comments you leave on our blog Balanced Mary Kay! You have a great ability to express yourself and what happened to you. You also have a great ability to ask questions with the genuine hope of getting answers. I admire that. I hope that you would know how I feel about these questions you asked from reading the blog, so I will assume that you are asking for the sake of Sean’s readers that have not made it over to the blog yet! And for that, I thank you.
“…do you think that there are those higher up in the MK sales force that have manipulated, lied, abused some IBCs?
Yes
“If so, do you think that MKC should hold these higher ups accountable?
Yes, to the extent that they legally can.
Is MKC accountable at all for allowing these women to abuse someone else?
This question can mean a lot of things… Should the be held accountable legally? In what way? Should the company be held accountable ethically? Who would be the one to hold them accountable? Regardless, I would say the answer depends on the severity of the abuse. Promoting the use of a sales script? Not so much. Lying about inventory requirements? Definitely. So you see, that particular question is a little too vague. The way it is worded now, I would have to say, yes and no.
I have no problem answering your questions. You are asking, “Has abuse happened, and if so, should Mary Kay Corporate share the blame?”
To which I have no problem saying, yes, abuse has happened, and on a case by case basis, Mary Kay may or may not be to blame and may or may not be able to be held liable.
What he is trying to bait me into saying is that Mary Kay is, by default, victimizing women. That they intentionally set up their distribution system in such a way that the system itself inherently victimizes women.
You will notice that when I try to pin him down on exactly what he is asking me, he “squirms out” of answering. Even to the extreme of asking me to tell him what he is asking me!?!?!
He does not want to know what I think. He wants me to say something that he can twist into something else. I am not here to play that game. It may be entertaining to you… and that is fine. But it does not benefit anyone, so I will be the “partypooper” and not play along with him.
Further, I would not expect to see his “story” anytime soon. I can all but guarantee you that no one will ever see that story. He is here because he likes the idea of entertaining people like you at the expense of people like me. Telling his story will not benefit him, so he will never do it.
Hope that clarifies why I am being stubborn about him clarifying what he is asking me before I answer it. Again, thanks for popping by over here!
Dave said, “He is here because he likes the idea of entertaining people like you at the expense of people like me.”
Com’on Dave, am I all that bad?
Blessed
Blessed,
Did I say that was bad?
Is it bad?
Perhaps I am one of those people that don’t mind being entertained at my own expense?!
But was I wrong?
Are you here for anything other than being entertainingly obstinate in your outrageously concocted offense at a company that sells skin care and beauty supplies?
I’m here to make noise about the abuse of women by the MK MLM.
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Some think I (and others like me) are “entertainingly obstinate” and, further, believe our testimonies about victimization by the Mary Kay Cosmetics MLM are “concocted.” Yea, really, “concocted”! Believe it or not, there are folks out there who describe our experiences in this way. And brace yourself, the sources of these descriptions are not limited to squeaky pitched teethy consultants still high from the infusion of whatever it is they ingest during the “awesome” yearly trip to the pink mecca for the foggy peddling of opportunities and dreams…. No, some who say this stuff (i.e., “concocted”) actually present themselves as “balanced.”
Who would’a ever thunk a balanced presenter would call our experiences “concocted”? Gee?
As much as we may enjoy presenting our (the wife and me) “I story,” I think we’re gonna hold off that much longer. Ya see, Dave, it seems apparent this gets under your skin. Your rants remind me of the little wind-up toys we use to get out of the Captain Crunch cereal boxes: easy to wind up and fun to watch BBBBZZZZZZ across the table!
So, I’m not gonna publish anything more about our story for, well, a real long, long time. Come on Dave…
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BBBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Blessed,
Shocking! Your predictability amazes me!!
Which one of us is the wind up toy??
(just look at all of your responses to me for the answer to that question… still not sure? It’s you! Surprised? I’m not!)
I am sure that you are not suggesting that I called your experience concocted!
Nothing could be further from the truth!
In fact, one might wonder how I could possibly call your experience “concocted” when you have not even shared your experience!!
In fact, one does wonder that. I do.
I said your “offense” is outrageously concocted. As in, you haven’t ever really explained the cause of your offense. You just constantly compare Mary Kay to other things you don’t like (or at least presumably don’t like) and leave us to guess what Mary Kay did to you and these other women you claim to be speaking for.
Judi, I hate to say, “I told you so”, but… (and, by the way, I am not saying that you did not believe me) …blessed would prefer to lob vague accusations against the company. He knows that if he, like you, tells us that someone lied to his wife, manipulated her, or any of the other things that we are all aware have happened, we will do as we did with you. Tell you how sorry we are that happened to you, and publicly display how outrageous this behavior is/was, so we can hopefully prevent it from happening again.
Blessed is not interested in helping in this way. He prefers his own renegade brand of unintelligible, insulting rants that serve more of a benefit as entertainment than any sort of practical help to those that may be in danger of being victimized by someone similar to the one that victimized his wife.
At Balanced Mary Kay, we try to actually help expose the specific things that are said to be happening so that people who are being lied to have a point of reference to say, “this is not what I was told…” and hopefully avoid the disaster that someone else already experienced.
It is my opinion that the latter is more effective.
He prefers his way.
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So then, do tell, how is it your “Balanced” approach helps “exposes the specific things that are said to be happening”? Ya know, I haven’t counted, but the vast majority of comments from your posters sound as thought they were lifted from an InTouch motivational section! Although there are exceptions, the vast majority of your readers believe the Mary Kay Cosmetics opportunity is the most wonderful thing they’ve experienced in a long time. Heck, one of your posters argues the MK MLM isn’t even an MLM because she can show you book and verse, in the company material, where it says Mary Kay is not an MLM! My bet is she may be holding this reading material with one hand while drinking Koolaid with the other.
Another thing you and the walking, smiling, giggling, fogged often repeat is there are bad people in MK who were “bad people” before they joined and will be “bad people” after they leave. Ya know, I can’t argue with ya about that one. That brunette ax murderer will, I believe, be just as dangerous an ax murderer when she leaves the dream. I think the same holds true re the kleptomaniac, the burglar, dope dealer, child molester, bank robber, etc. Name your felony; I think I agree with ya: If a criminal when they purchased the starter kit they’re still most likely a criminal when they leave. As your minions have said, this occurs in many different strata of the business world.
Got it. We agree.
What we don’t seem to agree about is the (per my perception) larger number of women who join the cult, get deeply enmeshed and captured by the manipulation tactics (i.e., misuse of matters of faith, frontloading, increasing family debt surreptitiously, attempt to undermine marriages, programming participants toward less self esteem , etc., etc., (we could go on and on). I’m talking here about the wonderful women (like your wife and mine) who enter the cult and at some point realize they’re entrapped in a maze of manipulation; they suddenly realize they are doing some unethical things they’d never have considered doing if not for the influence of the MK MLM cult. I believe this second group comprises the vast majority of MK MLM participants; they’re deep in the fog and while there, do some strange things they eventually become very ashamed of doing. The key is these women would not have ever considered doing these things if not for the influence of the cult-like sisterhood.
Let’s face it, the felons who enter and leave MK are not in a fog (I’d guess for the most part); they’re going to engage in unscrupulous behavior regardless of the manipulation their exposed to.
The other group is the women like most any dedicated wife, mother, professional; the woman who is dedicated to her family and understands the virtues of a strong faith. These are the women who at some point after their first MK event, begin to wonder why Christ wants them to sell Mary Kay Cosmetics as part of His mission for them. It’s, I believe, epiphanies like this combined with other realizations that prompt these women to simply say “this isn’t me, I’m out-a-here”! It is this group of women who would have never committed the acts that eventually cause them to feel shame if not for the “opportunity.” It is these women, the larger portion of all IBCs, who would have never considered doing some of the things they’ve done in MK, if it’d not been simply for their engulfment in the fog. These women are victims of the MK MLM. They are not merely victims of a director, national, etc, they are the victims of the MK MLM, the entity, the business paradigm. Yes, the business “opportunity” promulgated by Mary Kay Cosmetics Corporate is the most lethal carcinogen in the entire cult.
You think the problem is largely individuals.
I believe the problem is largely institutional.
And you keep on banging your drum, all the time presenting yourself as being interested in a fair examination of the entire MK phenomenon.
Yet you can’t even (or refuse to) define what is a victim of the MK MLM. Fffpppptttttt
You’re killing me here Dave.
Blessed
Hola Blessed,
“So then, do tell, how is it your “Balanced” approach helps “exposes the specific things that are said to be happening”?”
First, I wonder, (and I normally don’t point out grammatical errors and such, because it is, after all, the internet, but) why did you add an “s” to my “expose” when it actually made the sentence you were forming make less sense? (That is neither here nor there, just curious.)
In answer to that question, exactly how I said. People come in and say “This happened to me and I felt this way about it”. Other members weigh in on whether or not the cited behavior seems appropriate or inappropriate, healthy or unhealthy and how they would feel if the same was done to them. Anyone that has been in Mary Kay has an experience. Some good, some bad. For the good, we want to know what went right. For the bad, we want to know what went wrong. If possible, we try to come up with ideas that will help make people joining Mary Kay less susceptible to the abuse that has already happened to other people. In some cases, the discussion leads to things that Mary Kay could change to make it more difficult for people to victimize women. In other cases, we offer advice to those considering (or already in) Mary Kay that hopefully will keep them from being victimized.
“Although there are exceptions, the vast majority of your readers believe the Mary Kay Cosmetics opportunity is the most wonderful thing they’ve experienced in a long time.”
How do you know what the vast majority of my readers believe? How do you know what any of my readers believe? How many of them have said, “I believe the Mary Kay Cosmetics opportunity is the most wonderful thing I’ve experienced in a long time.”?
Regardless, perhaps you could help me with this. You see, I don’t control (in any way) who reads my site. The “vast majority” that you speak of do indeed seem to have had a positive experience with Mary Kay. However, it seems that the people who might be willing to offer other points of view are hard to reach. It seems that Pink Truth does not interact with any websites that don’t agree with the “total annihilation to Mary Kay” sentiment they promote there. Perhaps you could wage a similar campaign there that you do everywhere else. You know, the one where you go, “blah blah blah visit Pink Truth” except more like, “blah blah blah visit Balanced Mary Kay”. Tell them that we are all ears. Some of them have already stopped by and we have had what I consider to be some of the most beneficial conversations with them.
You see, when people who have differing views on the same subject have a rational conversation about that subject, they usually can come to a better understanding of that subject. We actually want to hear the stories. We want the experiences. Good or bad, as the White Stripes say, “Every single one’s got a story to tell”. Now of course, Jack White also says that he doesn’t want to hear about it in that song, but we do.
“Heck, one of your posters argues the MK MLM isn’t even an MLM because she can show you book and verse, in the company material, where it says Mary Kay is not an MLM!”
While I am glad you are following my site so closely, in the interest of full disclosure, you should mention that we discussed that back and forth. By most definitions of MLM, Mary Kay would be considered one, when Mary Kay says that they are not, they say, “Mary Kay is not a multi-level or “pyramid” company.” In other words, they are trying to distance themselves from the negative connotation associated with that name because of pyramid schemes that call themselves MLM. If you consider some of the outrageous things that I have allowed you to say, you should consider moving away from your glass house before you “go tossin’ your stones around”. If anything, this demonstrates that people can say whatever they want, but should be expected to explain why they think what they think, feel what they feel and believe what they believe. Something that, to date, you have been unwilling to do.
“I’m talking here about the wonderful women (like your wife and mine) who enter the cult and at some point realize they’re entrapped in a maze of manipulation; they suddenly realize they are doing some unethical things they’d never have considered doing if not for the influence of the MK MLM cult.”
I don’t think I can stress this strongly enough. Please, DO NOT presume to speak for my wife like that. Perhaps your wife found herself entrapped in a maze of manipulation. Perhaps she suddenly realized she was doing some unethical things that she never would have considered. Perhaps she feels that it was a cult mentality that led her to do so. You certainly allude to it often enough. But that does not mean my wife does.
“These are the women who at some point after their first MK event, begin to wonder why Christ wants them to sell Mary Kay Cosmetics as part of His mission for them.”
Sorry, just had to pause on this one!!! Do you actually know people that think “Christ wants them to sell Mary Kay Cosmetics as part of His mission for them”!!! That is phenomenally absurd. Don’t get me wrong, with some of the extremes that I have heard of self-proclaimed “Christians” reaching (abortion clinic bombers come to mind) this certainly seems feasible, but you actually know people that believe this?
“It’s, I believe, epiphanies like this combined with other realizations that prompt these women to simply say “this isn’t me, I’m out-a-here”!”
I should certainly hope so!
“You think the problem is largely individuals.”
YUP!
“And you keep on banging your drum, all the time presenting yourself as being interested in a fair examination of the entire MK phenomenon.
Yet you can’t even (or refuse to) define what is a victim of the MK MLM. Fffpppptttttt”
Listen to yourself. Read your post again. You are talking about a mysterious, cult-like “fog” that comes over “the vast majority” of women that get involved with Mary Kay. I feel like I am reading a transcript for the next episode of Lost. The one where all the survivors get hypnotized into forgetting all their values, ethics and morals by some new mysterious force that gets a hold of them and wont let go. Frankly, it sounds like you are creating a world where it is not your wife’s fault for whatever she did wrong, it is not your fault for allowing her to do so on your dime and the only one to blame is a mysterious, faceless “phenomenon”. But since you can’t make the ends meet, you are challenging me to do so for you. And, somehow, if I can’t do that for you, I am the one that is wrong?
Like I have said: Entertaining? Yes. Of any real value? No.
I’m “killing you” because I refuse to live in your make believe world where everything is someone else’s fault.
Let’er rip Dave!
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oops. guess i hit a nerve. sorry.
I wonder why consultants/directors spend so much of their time and energy blogging to defend MK instead of just working MK? Shouldn’t they be calling customers or something? A phrase comes to mind…. thou protesteth too much.