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	<title>Comments on: Promote me or I quit!</title>
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		<title>By: tomjedrz</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/promote-me-or-i-quit/comment-page-1/#comment-308127</link>
		<dc:creator>tomjedrz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slackermanager.com/2008/04/promote-me-or-i-quit.html#comment-308127</guid>
		<description>Eugene wrote ... 
&quot;They’re about JOB SECURITY. And that is, by far, THE most important thing an employee seeks.

A low paying job that you’re garanteed for a long time &gt; a high paying freelance gig that lasts two weeks. Every time. Trust me.&quot;

Sir, you are totally missing Mark&#039;s primary point.  There is no single thing that &quot;people want&quot;.  Each of us is different, and must be understood as an individual.  The manager needs to do the work of building relationships, understanding each person, and working to optimize what the company offers to what the person wants. The manager will likely find that the effort (by itself) will improve the turnover situation because of improved relationships.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eugene wrote &#8230;<br />
&#8220;They’re about JOB SECURITY. And that is, by far, THE most important thing an employee seeks.</p>
<p>A low paying job that you’re garanteed for a long time &gt; a high paying freelance gig that lasts two weeks. Every time. Trust me.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sir, you are totally missing Mark&#8217;s primary point.  There is no single thing that &#8220;people want&#8221;.  Each of us is different, and must be understood as an individual.  The manager needs to do the work of building relationships, understanding each person, and working to optimize what the company offers to what the person wants. The manager will likely find that the effort (by itself) will improve the turnover situation because of improved relationships.</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/promote-me-or-i-quit/comment-page-1/#comment-308100</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 01:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slackermanager.com/2008/04/promote-me-or-i-quit.html#comment-308100</guid>
		<description>The suggestions some people here are giving, ie &#039;varying work, opening up potential for raises, etc&#039; will not help in the long run.  &#039;Understanding what an emplyee wants&#039; (as Mark put it) doesn&#039;t help much when what they want is, in fact, a promotion. :p

As an employee, I&#039;m not just looking for basic variation in my job, I&#039;m also looking for the potential for substantial variation in the form of promotions.  Promotions are *not* just about money and power...as apparently some people have assumed here.  They&#039;re about JOB SECURITY.  And that is, by far, THE most important thing an employee seeks.  

A low paying job that you&#039;re garanteed for a long time &gt; a high paying freelance gig that lasts two weeks.  Every time.  Trust me.

Your company better be prepared for a looong headache-inducing period of super high turnover if they continue down this path.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The suggestions some people here are giving, ie &#8216;varying work, opening up potential for raises, etc&#8217; will not help in the long run.  &#8216;Understanding what an emplyee wants&#8217; (as Mark put it) doesn&#8217;t help much when what they want is, in fact, a promotion. :p</p>
<p>As an employee, I&#8217;m not just looking for basic variation in my job, I&#8217;m also looking for the potential for substantial variation in the form of promotions.  Promotions are *not* just about money and power&#8230;as apparently some people have assumed here.  They&#8217;re about JOB SECURITY.  And that is, by far, THE most important thing an employee seeks.  </p>
<p>A low paying job that you&#8217;re garanteed for a long time &gt; a high paying freelance gig that lasts two weeks.  Every time.  Trust me.</p>
<p>Your company better be prepared for a looong headache-inducing period of super high turnover if they continue down this path.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Edwards</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/promote-me-or-i-quit/comment-page-1/#comment-308513</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slackermanager.com/2008/04/promote-me-or-i-quit.html#comment-308513</guid>
		<description>People are by nature growing, changing, developing, maturing beings. Any corporate structure that doesn&#039;t take that basic fact into account cannot hope to keep team members engaged for very long.
I&#039;d venture to guess that failure to address this &quot;hard business reality&quot; may be costing your firm more than the flat organizational structure is saving them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People are by nature growing, changing, developing, maturing beings. Any corporate structure that doesn&#8217;t take that basic fact into account cannot hope to keep team members engaged for very long.<br />
I&#8217;d venture to guess that failure to address this &#8220;hard business reality&#8221; may be costing your firm more than the flat organizational structure is saving them.</p>
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		<title>By: MAPping Company Success</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/promote-me-or-i-quit/comment-page-1/#comment-308520</link>
		<dc:creator>MAPping Company Success</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slackermanager.com/2008/04/promote-me-or-i-quit.html#comment-308520</guid>
		<description>[...] also works for companies with flat organizations, such as the one Phil Gerbyshak described over at Slacker Manager, where most people have the same [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] also works for companies with flat organizations, such as the one Phil Gerbyshak described over at Slacker Manager, where most people have the same [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Horstman</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/promote-me-or-i-quit/comment-page-1/#comment-308533</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Horstman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 05:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slackermanager.com/2008/04/promote-me-or-i-quit.html#comment-308533</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re asking the wrong question.

This is not the company&#039;s problem, it&#039;s yours.  Their structure is their structure.  Every structure has an associated set of problems that come with it - you&#039;re at the problem nexus of your org structure right now.  The company needn&#039;t spend money simply because that is one thing to do.

Retain them the old fashioned way - by understanding what they want and working to craft a better future for them internally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re asking the wrong question.</p>
<p>This is not the company&#8217;s problem, it&#8217;s yours.  Their structure is their structure.  Every structure has an associated set of problems that come with it &#8211; you&#8217;re at the problem nexus of your org structure right now.  The company needn&#8217;t spend money simply because that is one thing to do.</p>
<p>Retain them the old fashioned way &#8211; by understanding what they want and working to craft a better future for them internally.</p>
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		<title>By: Laars Johnsen</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/promote-me-or-i-quit/comment-page-1/#comment-308537</link>
		<dc:creator>Laars Johnsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slackermanager.com/2008/04/promote-me-or-i-quit.html#comment-308537</guid>
		<description>I have twice left companies I liked very much to take positions with other companies who had more compelling growth opportunities than my employer. The bottom line is that if companies want to attract and retain talent, they have to compete in the employment marketplace by offering things the top talent wants: money, growth, quality environment, title (which leads to money). If a company chooses not to compete on these terms, they&#039;re effectively opting themselves out of the A-list, and the fact is that many (if not most) companies simply choose not to compete for the best talent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have twice left companies I liked very much to take positions with other companies who had more compelling growth opportunities than my employer. The bottom line is that if companies want to attract and retain talent, they have to compete in the employment marketplace by offering things the top talent wants: money, growth, quality environment, title (which leads to money). If a company chooses not to compete on these terms, they&#8217;re effectively opting themselves out of the A-list, and the fact is that many (if not most) companies simply choose not to compete for the best talent.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Hooft</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/promote-me-or-i-quit/comment-page-1/#comment-308543</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Hooft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slackermanager.com/2008/04/promote-me-or-i-quit.html#comment-308543</guid>
		<description>In many companies, the only highly paid people are managers. Such companies should consider making more &quot;senior&quot; specialist jobs, increasing pay for highly trained specialists that would provide less value to the company if they were promoted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In many companies, the only highly paid people are managers. Such companies should consider making more &#8220;senior&#8221; specialist jobs, increasing pay for highly trained specialists that would provide less value to the company if they were promoted.</p>
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		<title>By: tomjedrz</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/promote-me-or-i-quit/comment-page-1/#comment-308545</link>
		<dc:creator>tomjedrz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slackermanager.com/2008/04/promote-me-or-i-quit.html#comment-308545</guid>
		<description>Greetings.

First the obvious ... if the organization is flat and vacant senior positions are filled from outside, then there is very little advancement opportunity.  Everyone needs to be aware of that, from the point of hire. There is virtually nothing that you can do to change that.

I don&#039;t really understand the stuff about business pressures requiring that you only have senior level people. I would press on that some and get to the real issue.  It is far more likely management laziness or cowardice than some amorphous &quot;business unit pressures.&quot;

I think you are missing something in analysis of why people are leaving.  The issue is likely not that they want a &quot;promotion&quot;, it is that they want more interesting and challenging work, more responsibility, and the corresponding increase in pay. Every organization has junior level work; senior people doing junior level work get bored and leave. Further, management is usually unwilling to pay senior level money to people doing substantial junior level work.  So the company has painted itself into a corner.  Senior people are not going to stay in a position where they are doing low level work for low level pay.  Would you?

One alternative may be to cultivate a stable of consultants/&quot;hired guns&quot; available to pickup when your staffing is not optimal.  This may in fact be the best approach, rather than trying to provide something (a career path) which is not possible in your organization. The senior people can manage the hired guns, which should serve to fill their need for more diverse, challenging work.  Then, sometime down the road, you may be able to push the cost savings from having juniors on staff instead of consultants.

If you want internal folks now, you are framing the question improperly.  Restructure the work so that instead of x senior positions being required it can be done by y senior and z juniors.  When the extra cost and headcount are brought up as (legit) objections, counter with the idea of functional redundancy and reduced risk when people leave.  The current dilemma will work in your favor making this argument.

Good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greetings.</p>
<p>First the obvious &#8230; if the organization is flat and vacant senior positions are filled from outside, then there is very little advancement opportunity.  Everyone needs to be aware of that, from the point of hire. There is virtually nothing that you can do to change that.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really understand the stuff about business pressures requiring that you only have senior level people. I would press on that some and get to the real issue.  It is far more likely management laziness or cowardice than some amorphous &#8220;business unit pressures.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you are missing something in analysis of why people are leaving.  The issue is likely not that they want a &#8220;promotion&#8221;, it is that they want more interesting and challenging work, more responsibility, and the corresponding increase in pay. Every organization has junior level work; senior people doing junior level work get bored and leave. Further, management is usually unwilling to pay senior level money to people doing substantial junior level work.  So the company has painted itself into a corner.  Senior people are not going to stay in a position where they are doing low level work for low level pay.  Would you?</p>
<p>One alternative may be to cultivate a stable of consultants/&#8221;hired guns&#8221; available to pickup when your staffing is not optimal.  This may in fact be the best approach, rather than trying to provide something (a career path) which is not possible in your organization. The senior people can manage the hired guns, which should serve to fill their need for more diverse, challenging work.  Then, sometime down the road, you may be able to push the cost savings from having juniors on staff instead of consultants.</p>
<p>If you want internal folks now, you are framing the question improperly.  Restructure the work so that instead of x senior positions being required it can be done by y senior and z juniors.  When the extra cost and headcount are brought up as (legit) objections, counter with the idea of functional redundancy and reduced risk when people leave.  The current dilemma will work in your favor making this argument.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/promote-me-or-i-quit/comment-page-1/#comment-308549</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slackermanager.com/2008/04/promote-me-or-i-quit.html#comment-308549</guid>
		<description>First off people quit people before they quit the company!

I would call some of these peope who left and find out WHY they left. They have nothing to lose like a good reference after the exit interview. You need to search deep inside and ask yourself what you or the organizations cold have done better.

Not all people go for the money - sure it&#039;s nice but the effects will last for a short time. What in your office can you change? People like challenges. 

People also crave praise but seldom give it. If someone does something good then tell them on the spot and not during their annual review and in front of others - hold them up as an example to others!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off people quit people before they quit the company!</p>
<p>I would call some of these peope who left and find out WHY they left. They have nothing to lose like a good reference after the exit interview. You need to search deep inside and ask yourself what you or the organizations cold have done better.</p>
<p>Not all people go for the money &#8211; sure it&#8217;s nice but the effects will last for a short time. What in your office can you change? People like challenges. </p>
<p>People also crave praise but seldom give it. If someone does something good then tell them on the spot and not during their annual review and in front of others &#8211; hold them up as an example to others!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.everyjoe.com/articles/promote-me-or-i-quit/comment-page-1/#comment-310452</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slackermanager.com/2008/04/promote-me-or-i-quit.html#comment-310452</guid>
		<description>Could you create some &quot;entry level&quot; terminal positions? The concept is to design a position with the expectation that it will be vacated in 18 to 24 months. The new hire gains experience, you gain grunt-level work, with no expectation of a future with your company. Of course if star comes on board, you can keep them. With a system like this, you and the employee are prepared for the turnover.

To follow up with Julia, what do your people really want? Is your pay competitive?  Are there non-monetary benefits you can offer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you create some &#8220;entry level&#8221; terminal positions? The concept is to design a position with the expectation that it will be vacated in 18 to 24 months. The new hire gains experience, you gain grunt-level work, with no expectation of a future with your company. Of course if star comes on board, you can keep them. With a system like this, you and the employee are prepared for the turnover.</p>
<p>To follow up with Julia, what do your people really want? Is your pay competitive?  Are there non-monetary benefits you can offer?</p>
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