Everton, the Great Debate? or the Grand Illusion?
July 24, 2007 by admin
Filed under Uncategorized
Sometime in the next few weeks a select band of Evertonians will get the chance to vote on the future location of their club, …or is it the future of their club?
Because according to Keith Wyness if the Club doesn’t move to the new promised land then it will cease to exist in a few short years, and conversely those against this particular move, spout the same mantra about the future (or lack of it) if the club moves outside the city.
So with all these contrary opinions spinning around, what is the truth regarding the future of the club?
Well the club certainly needs a bigger stadium if its going to have the financial clout to regularly break into the top four again. A bigger stadium would increase revenues for the club from fans and from corporate hospitality. But its a kind of “Catch 22″ situation; we need funds to build a new stadium, without a new stadium we can’t generate the funds.
So building a bigger stadium involves many things, but the most important one to the club appears to be, to find someone to pay for it, and that will be the deciding factor in one of the other important aspects of building a new stadium – where to build it?
There have been many options discussed about where to build a new stadium. The traditionalists want to stay at Goodison Park. I admit it holds many memories for me, as does the surrounding area where I grew up. I would love us to stay at Goodison Park and if a solution could be found then I prefer us to stay, but I wouldn’t be adverse to a move if it was right for the club. Memories are great, but life still goes on, as will the club; it did when it moved from St Domingo Road, and when it moved from Anfield, and if needs must it will move again.
Other options have recently been proposed, including the holy of holies, a move back to Everton, in the shape of “The Loop”.
The one thing the fans all seem to agree on is that they do not want to leave the city. To do so would be to betray our heritage, to leave our traditional catchment area, to give up the city to the Reds. We are the People’s Club, so why leave the People behind?
Kirkby is now as much part of Liverpool as Walton is, so why all the angst about an artificial boundary? Maybe its because the People are the heart of the city and also the heart of the club, and by moving outside an artificial boundary the club is reinforcing the move away from Goodison is a move away from the club’s heart and its home.
The Club isn’t helping the situation any by the tactics it is using on this vote. It is clearly scaremongering and telling half truths to try to swing the fans to vote towards the move. This spin is meant to turn fans onto the idea, but in reality it is doing the opposite;
“This is a proposed move to a catchment area of four million within a forty-five minute drive, as opposed to the present catchment area of one point three million with the same drive time. The Liverpool-Manchester corridor is one of the fastest growing parts of Britain and there are lots of young families moving into it, and more planned during the next ten years. Many of them will have no affiliation with a local club. It’s up to us to go and claim them and increase our fans base.” so by moving four miles down the road the club is going to treble its fan base? Sorry Mr Wyness, it doesn’t work like that. The people moving there will already support a club, and a 45 minute drive does not determine what club you support. And by looking at your argument more closely you are in effect admitting is that the club is leaving behind its traditional catchment area and support and surrendering the city to Liverpool. You are saying in effect that the new fans growing up in the city will only have Liverpool to support.
“The Green Guide is being re-written this Summer and it will introduce more stringent environmental requirements. Any new development will have to comply with it when it is finalised. That could mean we end up at Goodison Park with a capacity of about 30,000, depending on the final form of the legislation, if we were to rebuild within the existing site boundaries“. This time you are scaremongering, you admit you don’t know what the effect will be, yet you randomly pull out a figure of 30,000. You are happy to release an exact figure for this unknown quantity and yet you are unwilling to give a figure for the total planned building cost, “for commercial reasons”.
“Everton are getting a £150m stadium for …. less than a hundred million… and after selling Goodison and the naming rights we will only have to contribute £10m-£15m“. There are two universal truths that hold for many situations; “there is no such thing as a free lunch” and “you get what you pay for”. Why is it that the actual cost of the stadium is shrouded in mystery. What are these commercial reasons that prevent you from discussing the actual cost? Is it that the true cost of the stadium is so low? Was Warren Bradley was right – are we leaving one of the most iconic buildings of our age to go and live in a cow shed?
The thing is …I actually do believe that Bill Kenwright has the future of the club in his heart. He truly believes that this is the way to take the club forward and to ensure its future back amongst the greatest clubs in the land, and to be honest, I’d rather have Bill at the helm than someone who is just in it for the money. So I would normally believe Bill if he told me that the only way the club can survive, let alone got forward, is to bite Tesco’s hand off and take the deal… but because of the lies and half truths being spun, I’m finding myself loath to blindly follow him on this occasion, and all the spin I see and hear, reminds me of an illusionist trying to deflect the eye away from what is really happening.
I’m starting to think that the only reason we are moving to Kirkby is not because ”it is the only option”, but because ”it is the only option that allows Bill to keep control of the club”.
We’ve heard that all other options are not practicable because we can’t afford them, and that statement in itself is probably true. But the facts are we can’t even afford the fund the Kirkby option either, we are relying on Knowsley and Tescos to fund that for us, so why can’t we look for other business partners to help us stay in our traditional catchment area and to build something more substantial than a “cow shed”?
We are told there is no one else, but having been in an exclusivity period for so long then we were couldn’t have been actively looking, so why not look now? Why not have a “Plan B”? Is it because all other investors would want some control of the club and Tescos just want the land?
To be honest, I don’t trust Bradley either. He’s a politician who is only too happy to score points off others in order to win votes. I feel that the club, while in a better position than it was at the time Bill took over, is still financially constrained and so unable to finance a stadium without outside help, …..but I also feel that we are being lied too and I don’t like it, I don’t like it at all. If we are the People’s Club, then treat us as people, as equals and not as children who can’t be told the truth.
We might not like what you have to say, but at least you’ll have our trust.
Ya Can Shove Ya Fuckin Kirkby up ya arse!!!!
not interested .. an i get vote being a season ticket for 12 years!!
KEEP EVERTON IN OUR CITY!!!
We must do what Mr Wyness says……
Why do fans continue to live in the past? I new stadium is needed quickly otherwise we will be left behind. We could probably stay at Goodison but the cost and time it takes to redevelop would be detrimental to our cause.
Dreckers – we don’t want to live in the past, we just don’t want to live in a cow shed on the edge of the city, regardless of our heritage we want something that will be a classic stadium, not a glorified chamionship one.
Moyesyside – is that you or do I smell the hand of Bully the Puppeteer working you from behind?
Then can you tell me how that is going to be funded? I’m afraid that sort of money will only come from some cash happy investor. That is not going happen to us.
Dreckers – I think there are investors out there, its just that Bill doesn’t want to lose control of the club. I like Bill and want him to stay at the club, but I’m worried that if you get what you pay for, so if we spend bugger all on a stadium then we’ll get a stadium worth bugger all – maybe that’s what its new name will be “Bugger Hall”
It’s time to stop the bickering and come up with a winning solution!
TD
Dan – I agree we need to move, but I don’t beleive that a cow shed in Kirkby is the only option we have, rather its the only option we are being given – we were told something similar with the golf course and then the kings dock, now we are down and out in kirkby.
Just because its a “bargain” doesn’t make it fit for the purpose.
right here, right now, if you want an Evertonian running your club, Kirkby IS the only option.
everything else would involve a sugar daddy non-evertonian because of the amount of money involved.
So it’s either US franchise or true blue.
the reason kings dock fell through was because WE DON’T HAVE ANY MONEY!!!
when will you realise?
cow shed my arse
We need the stadium to move forward, theyve come up with a plan to make that happen. Im not arsed if its in Kirkby as you said (and kudos for it) Kirkby is part of Liverpool as much as anywhere else.
The shite werent bothered when they put their training academy in that neck of the woods.
I’ll miss Goodison and it wont feel the same, ever probably but a new generation of blues will grow up with their own fondness for the new stadium.
No doubt there is spin involved as always but were over paranoid to fuck. Lets move forward and at least have the money to compete at the top. Finishing sixth and celebrating about it shows how shite we’ve become.
Lets not have another Kings Dock and fall further behind.
Bored now.
Good article. It is indeed true that you get what you pay for. If that is a (the?) central question, then the next question is, could we really afford anything better. What do you think, Sack?
Just to clarify – particularly to the person who called the Stadium “a glorified Championship” arena, my own investigations have revealed that the Kirkby Stadium will infact be a UEFA Class-A Stadium along with Old Trafford, and capable of hosting European Finals.
Retract your words in your own time, and never take any notice of a Politician. Bradley’s words were a scandal and debased the whole tone of the debate. He is a disgrace to the club and to the city.
The design at Kirkby contradicts what Wyness says about it. He says they have gone for ‘tradition and atmosphere’. There is very little traditional about it ( eg some Leitch blue crosses on the balconies would go down well ) but also by cutting the corners out of the Cologne design we have gaping great walls of glass that will make it all seem much more open and less enclosed and atmospheric. If he can so easily contradict himself on even this, you just have to wonder if he knows what he is doing. Sure, the numbers stack up, but what about the whole concept of a having an intimidating stadium to help the ‘12th man’ get you a few extra points over the season?
And it’s in the wrong place, anyway!
Suspect Bill Kenwright knows all this deep down and is staying out of the public glare to let Wyness take the flak.
I’m voting against moving unless these people start putting forward a better case than they have so far.
For all Evertonians in doubt as to which way to vote there is a very simple answer. Just ask a Koppite what they think of the proposed move to Kirkby.
Every last one of em will tell you its a great idea and that EFC should have a new home in Kirkby.
If that doesnt tell you what way to vote nothing will.
VOTE NO TO KIRKBY
Does anybody know when we will receive our voting papers?
And I hear details of this ‘Loop’ plan put together by Bestway. Have they made their intentions official with the club? How was this information released (and who to).
Everyone is looking for consiracies when there are good reasons for all the freebies. Knowsley council letting us have free land because it raises the profile of kirkby. Tescos help us out because they can utilise our free land for themselves, Barr being cheap because they will make a fortune out of Tesco on other schemes. Now we just need to find contributors to do the same in the city, from a personal point of view in Everton. So instead of everyone whinging about what the club are doing go out there and find ways of making alternatives “deliverable”. Trust me if somebody went to Bestways with an offer of support they would find themselves with a bitten off hand. Don’t moan….ACT!!!!
the one part of your argument that smacks me in the face re: kirby, is that this is the “ONLY” option that allows blue bill to remain control -without still technically investing in the club -i like biill am evertonian and i have blue blood running through my veins -but like bill i am also piss poor -and couldnt afford to run the club on my wage -he has to recognise that if he has blue blood he finds investment in the best interest of the club. (thats what people who have passion should do -whats in the best interest of the club) not the individual. investment to build ground in city=good idea. moving to kirby for (free!!) +in the long term bad idea
Listen to the koppites….
Er Eddy Bernard we don’t care what the RS say remember?
I’ve yet to see any realistic alternative to moving that isn’t based on emotional appeals.
Just a couple of points. Kirkby is NOT as much a part of Liverpool as Walton. Walton is in Liverpool and has been for 150 years. Kirkby is not in Liverpool. If it were, it wouldn’t be in Knowsley, a neighboring borough.
The boundary between Liverpool and Kirkby is no more “artificial” than any other administrative boundary. It is as real as the boundary between Scotland and England or Lancashire and Yorkshire. The idea of moving out of Liverpool and still calling yourself a “Liverpool club” because the geopolitical reality causes a problem is as ridiculous as Real Madrid moving to Barcelona and calling themselves a “Madrid club”
You are either in Liverpool, or you are not. If we move to Kirkby we would be a Kirkby club – happily the only Premiership team in the whole of… Knowsley. The only Liverpool club would be Liverpool and don’t think the media, the Premier League and LFC will ever get tired of reminding us. If Lancashire Cricket Club moved to Yorkshire would they still be Lancashire Cricket Club? Don’t buy me a pig and tell me I own a dog.
Build a team. It’s the way out of this. If we were challenging for the Premiership title every year then no-one would give a rat’s arse about a new stadium. It was the team that lost its way during the 90’s not the stadium.
When I drive my milk float around Walton I still go for a spin around the ground just to feel the vibes. I can’t ever imagine doing that anywhere else.
And what’s wrong with emotion? That, after all, is what the club sells. Or do we turn up for the delicious food and reasonably priced merchandise?
There are always alternatives; they have been spellt out; vote NO and give yourselves time to think.
Peter do you realise that Liverpool used to be part of Lancashire but now its in Merseyside, Warrington & Widnes used to be in Cheshire but now they are in Halton & Warrington. So much for you traditions and history. Face it things change and so do boundaries.
“I’m starting to think that the only reason we are moving to Kirkby is not because ”it is the only option”, but because ”it is the only option that allows Bill to keep control of the club”.
Hear hear.
As a fan of the “redshite” who now lives overseas, you might think I don’t care about what happens to our neighbours, but I have been following the Kirby debate on toffeeweb and other sites with interest.
My personal feeling is that on the one hand Kirby is a great deal…a 55,000 seater stadium, top class, for fifty million quid is a steal. But, but, but…I find it hard to believe that there are “no other options”. A move such as this one will have a profound effect on the club for the next fifty years, and so it should not be rushed. If every possible option is thoroughly explored and then Kirby is the only feasible option then fine…but don’t rush it. What does another year matter when it comes to the long term future of the club?
Everton have a good team, a good manager, a great history and if Kirby allows them to build on that then fine. But if the doomsayers are even close to the mark then it is a risk too far. Goodison won’t fall down over night, there are far, far worse teams in the Premiership (you qualified for the Champions League only 2 years ago!), so the board should really take as much time as is needed to make sure the decision is the right one.
And if the only reason is to allow the current board to remain in control then, frankly, that’s not good enough. A true Evertonian would say “I’ve brought this club as far as I can, now someone else can take it to the next level”.
At the moment, if I was an Everton fan and had a vote, then I would vote No because the line being pushed by the board has slightly too much of a feel of blackmail about it. There’s no way the choice is as stark as Kirby or else. Good luck anyway, because whatever they say, a true Liverpool fan doesn’t want Everton to do badly…the city of Liverpool needs and deserves two top sides. In 1995 I cheered every Southall save in the cup final, and I bet there were a lot of reds doing likewise – even if they won’t admit it. As long as we finish ahead of you, I’m happy for you to come second
Of course, it is doubtful you should listen to the views of anyone who can’t spell Kirkby. Whoops!